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Is this for real? Witchcraft...

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Postby Strahd » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:59 am

GorillaGal wrote:
Strahd wrote:Actually I believe that Cyprus is a safe haven for all kinds of quackery and false science. I can see everywhere signs for naturpaths, orthomolecular biologists, chiropracts and all the other bullshit that will subscribe you vitamins for whatever you are suffering. This has to be put to an end and under control because a lot of ignorant people are falling victims of those charlatans daily spending immense amount of their hard earned cash and at the end some of them are actually doing more harm than good to themselves.


hey strahd,
i guess you never went to a chirapractor before. they are great. i got bit by a baby gorilla once--she dislocated my thumb...i went to the traditional orthopedic doctors, who splinted my finger, but it still hurt, til i saw the chiro. he did a little mumbo-jumbo on it and snapped it right back into place. i should have seen him in the first place....

acupuncturists are great too. saved me from surgery last year.

but if you would ratehr be all cut up and pumped full of drugs, go right ahead. i will stick to my alternative medicines....


This is a free country and it is your right to take whatever you like, however you cannot persuade me that anecdotal evidence, personal claims, miracle therapies and in general quackery bullshit works. Yes medical doctors can do and do mistakes and they know it and they never hide it. On the other hand your quackers seem to always be correct and succesful.

Because these conversations lead nowhere I will stop here and say no more.
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Postby eternal » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:36 am

i have Angel cards, and have strange dreams, does that make me a witch? :?
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Postby twinkle » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:28 am

eternal wrote:i have Angel cards, and have strange dreams, does that make me a witch? :?



do you live in a gingerbread house and wear a pointed hat???
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Postby dinos » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:26 pm

GorillaGal wrote:most medicines come from nature, and there have been remedies since the beginning of time. 20th century comes along, they find a way to synthasize it and put it in a bottle, and give it some fancy name. i'd ratehr go natural, unless of course they want to give me hormones made from some pregnant horses urine or something equally not too appealing. in that case, i'll take the synthetic stuff. but if i can take a garlic pill and eat oatmeal to lower my cholesteral, i will do that in a flash instead of taking a pill. (btw, i did just that, and my cholestrerol went from 206 to 125.... but i also lost alot of extra weight which helped alot.)


There's plenty of reason to distrust the pharmaceuticals out there that cause worse side-effects than the actual ailment you started out with.

Eating a healthy diet is a good thing and will definitely benefit us in the long run. I don't doubt you results; I just don't consider the oatmeal thing a natural remedy. Just positive effects from a healthy diet. Don't get me wrong - I'm glad you lost the weight and dropped your cholesterol. My intent was a bit humorous - There are plenty of folks out there that'll start digging under their decks for some weird fungus to eat if their legs hurt. Tylenol just somehow seems more practical. :)

Hope you're well,
-dinos
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Postby Strahd » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:42 pm

dinos wrote:
There's plenty of reason to distrust the pharmaceuticals out there that cause worse side-effects than the actual ailment you started out with.


The one thing about pharmaceuticals is that they will not go on sale unless their function, side-effects and results are completely understood and documented.

What most sets alternative medicine apart is that it has not been scientifically tested and its advocates largely deny the need for such testing. By testing, we mean the marshaling of rigorous evidence of safety and efficacy, as required by the EU for the approval of drugs and by the best peer-reviewed medical journals for the publication of research reports. Of course, many treatments used in conventional medicine have not been rigorously tested, either, but the scientific community generally acknowledges that this is a failing that needs to be remedied. Many advocates of alternative medicine, in contrast, believe the scientific method is simply not applicable to their remedies.

Alternative medicine also distinguishes itself by an ideology that largely ignores biologic mechanisms, often disparage modern science, and relies on what are purported to be ancient practices and natural remedies (which are seen as somehow being simultaneously more potent and less toxic than conventional medicine). Accordingly, herbs or mixtures of herbs are considered superior to the active compounds isolated in the laboratory. And healing methods such as homeopathy and therapeutic touch are fervently promoted despite not only the lack of good clinical evidence of effectiveness, but the presence of a rationale that violates fundamental scientific laws -- surely a circumstance that requires more, rather than less, evidence.

When someone feels better after having used a product or procedure, it is natural to credit whatever was done. This is unwise, however, because most ailments resolve by themselves and those that persist can have variable symptoms. Even serious conditions can have sufficient day-to-day variation to enable useless methods to gain large followings. In addition, taking action often produces temporary relief of symptoms due to a placebo effect. This effect is a beneficial change in a person's condition that occurs in response to a treatment but is not due to the pharmacologic or physical aspects of the treatment. Belief in the treatment is not essential, but the placebo effect may be enhanced by such factors as faith, sympathetic attention, sensational claims, testimonials, and the use of scientific-looking charts, devices, and terminology. Another drawback of individual success stories is that they don't indicate how many failures might occur for each success. People who are not aware of these facts tend to give undeserved credit to "alternative" methods.

The fact that an "alternative" method may exert a placebo effect that relieves symptoms is not sufficient reason to justify its use. Therapy should be based on the ability to alter abnormal physiology and not on the ability to elicit a less predictable placebo effect. Placebo therapy is inherently misleading and can make patients believe something is effective when it is not. Without controlled clinical trials, any treatment that is used could receive credit for the body's natural recuperative ability.

Medical "facts" are determined through a process in which hundreds of thousands of scientists share their observations and beliefs. Editors and editorial boards of scientific journals play an important role by screening out invalid findings and enabling significant ones to be published. Expert panels convened by government agencies, professional groups, voluntary health agencies, and other organizations also contribute to this effort. When controversies arise, further research can be devised to settle them. Gradually, a shared set of beliefs is developed that is considered scientifically accurate.
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Postby dinos » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:27 pm

Like I said...I'll take the Tylenol! :lol:

Seriously, if someone wants to eat a mushroom growing off a pile of chicken crap as a remedy for Autism or something...what the hell? They're not harming anyone but themselves if they eat the wrong kind of mushroom.

Also, not all side effects are necessarily known prior to a drug's release. Here's some info on Acetominophen (Tylenol) when taken four days in a row that's now coming to light:

http://healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.asp?docID=533601
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