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Turkey must respect its EU commitments

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby andri_cy » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:45 am

Officials say the EU and Turkey have made little progress on resolving the Cyprus issue.

At a meeting of foreign ministers on Monday, the Finnish EU presidency stressed the increasing need for compromise on both sides.

“It takes two to tango,” Finnish foreign minister Erkki Tuomioja told reporters after the meeting in Luxembourg.

Brussels has warned that the stalemate over Turkey’s refusal to open its ports to Cypriot planes and ships could derail Turkey’s EU membership talks.

Ankara faces a December deadline to implement full customs union with all member states.

And Turkey is coming under increasing pressure to fall into line.

Greece and Cyprus, backed by other EU countries, have threatened to block future talks if Ankara does not live up to the agreement it signed last year.

Turkey has refused to accept Greek Cypriot shipments until the embargo against Turkish Cypriots in the north is lifted.

But Helsinki hopes its compromise proposal could prevent the “train crash” EU enlargement commissioner Olli Rehn has warned of.

“That is a good prospect, because I think it is in no one’s interest, not in any member state of the EU, or in Turkey's interest that we fail,” Tuomioja said.

Finnish plans would see restrictions on the Turkish-run north of Cyprus cut back if Ankara agrees to open up its ports to the Greek Cypriots.



It seems to me that it is clear to Turkey what they need to do and in how long. I think maybe we miscalculated and they don't really want to join the EU after all. If they don't comply by December does that end the negotiations for their accession? If they do not want to join what kind of leverage could we have?
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Postby Ascot » Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:35 am

miltiades wrote:ISSY1956 YOU WROTE:

"""He said the GC leadership `cheated' their way into the E.U. by initially indicating they favoured unification and then opposing it at the last hour. """
You are indeed an eloquent and well educated individual whose posts are on the whole well balanced , however to state " they favoured unification and then opposing it at the last hour. """ is absolute nonsense especially coming from you. I want nothing more than my country to be united , but I OPPOSESED THE AP , not because I was influenced by internal politics but because the AP was nothing of the sort. It was not A UNIFICATION PLAN .FULL STOP. Police stations flying the FOREIGN FLAGS OF GREECE AND TURKEY , ROADS TAHT ARE DIVIDED BETWEEN G/C And T/C administration , ??? Which part Issy of this plan was a Unification plan ? Foreign troops on our land with not the slightest guaranty of their eventual departure ?
Now lets get one thing straight . The plan was orchestrated by foreign powers with their interests at heart , it did not unite Cyprus in to one nation , one people.


We have not cheated our way to EU

We had to comply with EU requirements.

COMPLY.

Yes, something the Turks understand as EU complying with Turkish requirements.
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Postby Kartal_Aetos » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:32 am

there will be no leverage once doors are closed on turkeys EU accession and turkey know this well...Once the EU say to Turkey sorry, thank you, goodbye, Turkey will then turn around and say ok, no more cyprus discussions, sorry, thank you, goodbye...Turkey will not move on EU's demands, EU will not move on Turkey's demands...deadlocked...Did anyone actually ever think Turkey will ease up on its policies towards Cyprus without some movement towards the removal of isolations sanctioned on TRNC? i didn't...
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Postby Piratis » Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:04 am

Did anyone actually ever think Turkey will ease up on its policies towards Cyprus without some movement towards the removal of isolations sanctioned on TRNC? i didn't...

You didn't but EU did. Now EU has learned that they can not trust the Turks to honor their signature.

What exists is not sanctions on "TRNC". You can not have sanctions over something that does not exist. Part of Republic of Cyprus is illegally occupied by Turkey and therefore Republic of Cyprus can not operate its ports that are currently under occupation. Cypriots (GCs, TCs and everybody else) are therefore forced to trade from the remaining free ports.

It is not RoCs or EUs fault if some TCs don't want to trade from the free ports because they align themselves with the occupation regime who has as an aim not trade, but partition of our country. Did you think that RoC would ever accept any moves that could help the occupation?
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Postby Kartal_Aetos » Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:32 am

tut tut...that's a very hostile post mr piratis :)

well, believe it or not...TRNC does exist...its just that EU does not recognise it...Turkey does not recognise RoC...does this mean that RoC doesn't exist? lol...then how can they open their ports to somewhere which doesn't exist? :) you can read it anywhere...there are sanctions on the northern side of cyprus...its not like i just made it up...lol...TRNC has trade embargo's on it...that is the sanction...

anyway, that was off the topic :)

no, i didnt expect RoC to ever accept any moves to help TRNC...thats why i said that it will be deadlocked :)

The reason why we can not trade through the 'free' ports is because the revenue generated goes to the RoC government and not ours therefore it does not go into our economic system...therefore we do not reap the benefits of trading through these ports...the citizens living in RoC do...it's not like RoC are gonna turn around and be like hey, your hard working people generated this money...take it, build some schools for the TC youth, build some hospitals for the TC's that are ill, build some infrastructure so that the TC's can prosper...and fair enough, no1 expects them to...but then we must look for a way for this revenue to go into our economy so that we may see the benefits of foreign trade...
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Postby Piratis » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:05 am

tut tut...that's a very hostile post mr piratis

Hostile are those that declared a pseudo state on land they took by force from our country, not my post.

well, believe it or not...TRNC does exist...its just that EU does not recognise it

It is not just EU. No country recognizes it, apart from the ones who run it.

Turkey does not recognise RoC...does this mean that RoC doesn't exist?


It means it doesn't exist for Turkey, in the same way that "trnc" doesn't exist for the rest of the world.

then how can they open their ports to somewhere which doesn't exist?


Of course the ports exist. The problem is that it is not "their" ports. Those are RoCs ports that RoC is currently not able to operate due to the Turkish occupation.

The reason why we can not trade through the 'free' ports is because the revenue generated goes to the RoC government and not ours therefore it does not go into our economic system...therefore we do not reap the benefits of trading through these ports...the citizens living in RoC do...it's not like RoC are gonna turn around and be like hey, your hard working people generated this money...take it, build some schools for the TC youth, build some hospitals for the TC's that are ill, build some infrastructure so that the TC's can prosper...and fair enough, no1 expects them to...but then we must look for a way for this revenue to go into our economy so that we may see the benefits of foreign trade...


The TCs can take many of the benefits of RoC like free health care, without even paying taxes at RoC.

TCs are RoC citizens, and just like GCs we all suffer from the consequences of the illegal Turkish occupation.
For those consequences you should blame Turkey who is the one acting illegally in Cyprus, and not RoC which is naturally trying to protect its sovereignty.

Do not forget that "trnc" does NOT equal TCs. "trnc" is a Turkish (not TC) run illegal state which is made up by more Turks from Turkey than TCs (if you include the 40.000 occupation force + settlers). Also the land that "trnc" claims that exist on, is the homeland of far more GCs than TCs.
So the northern part of our country is (at least) as much GC land as it is TC land (like the rest of Cyprus). So we obviously also want that part of our country to be developed and prosper. But this should be done to serve the people of those lands (GCs and TCs), not to finance the illegal regime to serve the Turkish settlers and the occupation army on the expense of the majority of the people that have those lands as their homeland.
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:58 am

Piratis you continue to chirp a lot but produce nothing with real substance you seem to advocate to the policy that TCs should return to the 1960s agreements but in the same breath you say these agreements gave us to many privileges. We all are aware of your previous leaders attempts to water down these agreements and where that took us. How do expect Tcs to go back to such an agreement which you yourselves did not want back then and yet so dearly hold onto and promote today.

If you really want reunification you have to see beyond the current situation and be sensitive towards TCs fears and concerns as I have to towards the GCs. For example lets try this approach you tell me what you feel is my concern and how you would resolve it. Ill start, I understand your concerns over the Turkish army and would support the island being demilitarized (over a shorter period than stated in the Annan plan), so that we have a risk free situation where one side cannot attack the other, or one side does not have the military advantage over the other. Your turn......
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Postby miltiades » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:30 am

VP , forgive me for replying to your following Piratis addressed post, but you have I think for the first time a profoundly conciliatory comment in addressing and accepting that all Cypriots have legitimate concerns that need to be respected by each and every one of us.

"""If you really want reunification you have to see beyond the current situation and be sensitive towards TCs fears and concerns as I have to towards the GCs. For example lets try this approach you tell me what you feel is my concern and how you would resolve it. Ill start, I understand your concerns over the Turkish army and would support the island being demilitarized (over a shorter period than stated in the Annan plan), so that we have a risk free situation where one side cannot attack the other, or one side does not have the military advantage over the other. Your turn...... ""

The only way forward is all of us to examine the reasons that create our division , respect the concerns of the people and endeavour to honestly and in an unbiased fashion address those concerns.
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:09 am

miltiades wrote:VP , forgive me for replying to your following Piratis addressed post, but you have I think for the first time a profoundly conciliatory comment in addressing and accepting that all Cypriots have legitimate concerns that need to be respected by each and every one of us.

"""If you really want reunification you have to see beyond the current situation and be sensitive towards TCs fears and concerns as I have to towards the GCs. For example lets try this approach you tell me what you feel is my concern and how you would resolve it. Ill start, I understand your concerns over the Turkish army and would support the island being demilitarized (over a shorter period than stated in the Annan plan), so that we have a risk free situation where one side cannot attack the other, or one side does not have the military advantage over the other. Your turn...... ""

The only way forward is all of us to examine the reasons that create our division , respect the concerns of the people and endeavour to honestly and in an unbiased fashion address those concerns.


Thank you..

But lets see what Piratis's response will be? will he be constructive or will he just ignore my concerns and suggest remedies or excuses that he knows will not be acceptable to any TC? and thus force stalemate..
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Postby G.Man » Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:58 am

The importance of Turkey joining the EU (for Turkey) should not be underestimated...

It is in a perfect position as gateway to the east, to become the main route for goods from asia into europe..

Setting a competitive import tax rate will encourage asian and far eastern companies to bring goods in via turkey and distribute to the rest of Europe..

That would mean a huge increase in revenue income for Turkey which, because the duty is paid in Turkey will not be received by other EU countries with far more punitive import taxes...

They know this, and so EU membership is very important to them...

Thats my theory anyway

;)
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