Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

VP , NO ONE WILL TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY UNLESS YOU STOP FOLLOWING ANKARAS LINE.

The correct spelling of the ROC is so not in inverted commas . The world consists of hundreds of nations all of whom spell the name as such .

Then feel free to go negotiate a solution with them who spell your countries name correctly and see how far you will get, I do not recognize you and you do not recognize me that's what we are trying to resolve and until we do you are just as much pseudo to me as I am to you, how we view each other is more important than the rest of the world as its us that has to agree a solution.

It is not up to you or me to decide who we want to recognise and who we do not! This is the job of the UN and the international law, and every civilised and law abiding person or country must respect it. I for example do not wish to stop on the red traffic lights, but only on the green ones, however the laws say something else, and therefore I have to obey what the laws say, and not what my wishes!

[zan]

VP , NO ONE WILL TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY UNLESS YOU STOP FOLLOWING ANKARAS LINE.

The correct spelling of the ROC is so not in inverted commas . The world consists of hundreds of nations all of whom spell the name as such .

Then feel free to go negotiate a solution with them who spell your countries name correctly and see how far you will get, I do not recognize you and you do not recognize me that's what we are trying to resolve and until we do you are just as much pseudo to me as I am to you, how we view each other is more important than the rest of the world as its us that has to agree a solution.

It is not up to you or me to decide who we want to recognise and who we do not! This is the job of the UN and the international law, and every civilised and law abiding person or country must respect it. I for example do not wish to stop on the red traffic lights, but only on the green ones, however the laws say something else, and therefore I have to obey what the laws say, and not what my wishes!

And you hover at the lights with intent, as you do at the boarder. We respect the red light but are cautious about crossing with you sitting there revving your engine with foam coming out of your mouth.

[Viewpoint]

VP WROTE:
"""Then feel free to go negotiate a solution with them who spell your countries name correctly and see how far you will get, I do not recognize you and you do not recognize me that's what we are trying to resolve and until we do you are just as much pseudo to me as I am to you, how we view each other is more important than the rest of the world as its us that has to agree a solution.""

Your peddling forged currency and you are classifying the internationally recognised currency as forged.
I think you ought to re examine your position.

I'm not peddling anything, I am fighting for my right to exist in a safe and equal environment and not in a GC state dominated by GCs...and until I can see a formula that will provide this that I can commit to the current situation will continue.

[Viewpoint]

VP , NO ONE WILL TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY UNLESS YOU STOP FOLLOWING ANKARAS LINE.

The correct spelling of the ROC is so not in inverted commas . The world consists of hundreds of nations all of whom spell the name as such .

Then feel free to go negotiate a solution with them who spell your countries name correctly and see how far you will get, I do not recognize you and you do not recognize me that's what we are trying to resolve and until we do you are just as much pseudo to me as I am to you, how we view each other is more important than the rest of the world as its us that has to agree a solution.

It is not up to you or me to decide who we want to recognise and who we do not! This is the job of the UN and the international law, and every civilised and law abiding person or country must respect it. I for example do not wish to stop on the red traffic lights, but only on the green ones, however the laws say something else, and therefore I have to obey what the laws say, and not what my wishes!

Then use the UN and the international law to gain what you require without us, if this were possible you would have done this many moons ago, it doesnt work that way and you know it. We are the people you have to negotiate and agree things with, no one else.

[Pyrpolizer]

We have discussed this before yet you still find it difficult to realize that not all refugees will be able to go home as your leaders promise. Many will have to settle for compensation for the sake of a solution.

You seem to over emphasise this "compensation" argument. The right to ones property cannot be scrapped by forced "compensation". It should be entirely upto the individual whether he would accept compensation, how much that would be, and on which terms. I can only support a solution that gives the individuals freedom of what they should chose to do.

Secondly, we all know the vast majority of refugees GCs/TCs will never return. Therefore the solution should only guarantee ones right to return if he sincerely wants to. .This wish and right should have priority over any other wishes e.g of current user of property. So if someone really wants to return, then the new state should be oblidged to make this possible within lets say maximum 3 months.

I hope you don’t come back asking me what would happen if every GC would return, because I would not even bother to reply.

[observer]

the right to ones property cannot be scrapped by forced "compensation"

The above is an exceptionally naive view. Governments all over the world can, and do, compulsorily purchase land for the greater good of the community; to build roads and other community projects for example.

Following the breakdown of civil law, and a resultant period of conflict, it has usually been the case that the mess that follows is settled by agreements between governments. It is rare that everyone gets back what they had before the conflict started. In Europe there are numerous examples of this happening. Borders in Europe have shifted so many times during the last century that the EU could not exist unless leaders had sat down and made such agreements, and their citizens accepted the consequences.

The sooner the RoC leaders and the GC population accept this, the sooner Cyprus can exist as a united nation.

[Pyrpolizer]

You should know that the same stealing of properties happened in Ex-east Germany and now 70 years later they are giving everything back. As for those agreements you talk about they are all in your imagination. Show me those agreements. Here we are not talking for a redrawing of borders between countries. You are naive to even think this could propably be a solution in Cyprus.
Expropriation of properties for public use, is a totally different issue that forcing someone losing his property so that someone else gets it.
If you think ANY such an arrangement even an agreement as you imagine it has even a chance in a million to stand at an EU court then keep on dreaming.

[Viewpoint]

We have discussed this before yet you still find it difficult to realize that not all refugees will be able to go home as your leaders promise. Many will have to settle for compensation for the sake of a solution.

You seem to over emphasise this "compensation" argument. The right to ones property cannot be scrapped by forced "compensation". It should be entirely upto the individual whether he would accept compensation, how much that would be, and on which terms. I can only support a solution that gives the individuals freedom of what they should chose to do.

Secondly, we all know the vast majority of refugees GCs/TCs will never return. Therefore the solution should only guarantee ones right to return if he sincerely wants to. .This wish and right should have priority over any other wishes e.g of current user of property. So if someone really wants to return, then the new state should be oblidged to make this possible within lets say maximum 3 months.

I hope you don’t come back asking me what would happen if every GC would return, because I would not even bother to reply.

So kindly answer me this question honestly and hand on heart...

If Tc has used disputed land worth 250.000 cyp and built a hotel worth 5.000.000 cyp will you give the right to the Gc to get back the land with the hotel on it or the gc can choose to have the hotel demolished? What will happen to the TC 5 million investment?

[growuptcs]

If it was diputed GC land, and the hotel cant be moved then they will have to find a balanced payment for the both of them from the hotels revenue. I say 60-40. 60 for the entities that made the investment and a contract for a lease that has a shelf life of 20 years. After that, a clause should be put in where the GC makes 50% and The TC 50%. But documented that its the GC or TC that are the original owners of that title deeded land if problems arise after the 20 year point.

[growuptcs]

Theres always a way to negotiate but to shut out ideas just to claim your case will not work. Its "The Turk way" nowadays to get through problems. By just shutting them out. If you practice what you really preach, how do you go through parenthood? Our fathers from both sides were like that, and thats why we are all thickheads somewhat. We are more educated today to know what it takes to live in peacefull society. Well sorry, for the ones that WANT TO live in a normal society.