Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Piratis you continue to chirp a lot but produce nothing with real substance you seem to advocate to the policy that TCs should return to the 1960s agreements but in the same breath you say these agreements gave us to many privileges. We all are aware of your previous leaders attempts to water down these agreements and where that took us. How do expect Tcs to go back to such an agreement which you yourselves did not want back then and yet so dearly hold onto and promote today.

If you really want reunification you have to see beyond the current situation and be sensitive towards TCs fears and concerns as I have to towards the GCs. For example lets try this approach you tell me what you feel is my concern and how you would resolve it. Ill start, I understand your concerns over the Turkish army and would support the island being demilitarized (over a shorter period than stated in the Annan plan), so that we have a risk free situation where one side cannot attack the other, or one side does not have the military advantage over the other. Your turn......

still waiting Piratis

still waiting

[Piratis]

Piratis you continue to chirp a lot but produce nothing with real substance you seem to advocate to the policy that TCs should return to the 1960s agreements but in the same breath you say these agreements gave us to many privileges. We all are aware of your previous leaders attempts to water down these agreements and where that took us. How do expect Tcs to go back to such an agreement which you yourselves did not want back then and yet so dearly hold onto and promote today.

Returning to 1960 is not an option, it is an obligation. You illegally stop this from happening with the 40.000 troops you illegally maintain on RoC soil.
After we return to 1960 agreements we can then see what kind of modification they need to become better based on the EU requirements. Even Turkey is forced to make reforms, so we will have to do them also. But these will be reforms for the good of all Cypriots, and will not violate the human or democratic rights of anybody, and TCs would agree to them as well.

If you really want reunification you have to see beyond the current situation and be sensitive towards TCs fears and concerns as I have to towards the GCs.

This is a joke right? Keeping us away from our own homes at gun point is the way you show your sensitivity? On the contrary you show absolutely no respect to us and you want us to accept violations of our human and democratic rights so you can forcefully gain on our loss.
On the other hand I never asked for a single of your human rights to be removed from you and I we are even ready to make compromises to satisfy your fears. But these compromises should be within the limits of human rights and democracy. If GCs have the "fear" of not liking the TCs, would that mean that we can ask from you to be ethnically cleansed from Cyprus to satisfy us?

Ill start, I understand your concerns over the Turkish army and would support the island being demilitarized (over a shorter period than stated in the Annan plan), so that we have a risk free situation where one side cannot attack the other, or one side does not have the military advantage over the other. Your turn......

Thanks for understanding our concern. Here we should note, that by accepting the above you didn't sacrifice any of your legal, human or democratic rights. You just accepted that an illegality from your part should stop.

My Turn: I understand that TCs want to have free trade, so in a united Cyprus TCs will not have any kind of trade restrictions.

But why going with "your turn", "my turn" and not just say that we should return to legality and everybody will get his full rights back?

[zan]

But why going with "your turn", "my turn" and not just say that we should return to legality and everybody will get his full rights back?

VP, has your mother never warned you not to take sweats from a stranger

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Returning to 1960 is not an option, it is an obligation

Aren't you imposing this on me? this i do not like and feel uncomfortable you cannot force me to do anything, you have to try put forward the arguments for returning to a constitution which you yourself state is no good.

You illegally stop this from happening with the 40.000 troops you illegally maintain on RoC soil.

Just take it for granted that if we are able to resolve our issues they will leave, end of story.

After we return to 1960 agreements we can then see what kind of modification they need to become better based on the EU requirements. Even Turkey is forced to make reforms, so we will have to do them also. But these will be reforms for the good of all Cypriots, and will not violate the human or democratic rights of anybody, and TCs would agree to them as well.

This very much depends on the changes you wish to make and if they are acceptable to us or are they just another regurgitation of the Akritas amendments to water down the effect of the TC community and gain full power.

This is a joke right? Keeping us away from our own homes at gun point is the way you show your sensitivity? On the contrary you show absolutely no respect to us and you want us to accept violations of our human and democratic rights so you can forcefully gain on our loss.

You will be able to return to your homes where it is physically possible we have agreed this before but I still maintain that many refugees will have to settle for compensation for resolving complicated issues.

On the other hand I never asked for a single of your human rights to be removed from you and I we are even ready to make compromises to satisfy your fears. But these compromises should be within the limits of human rights and democracy. If GCs have the "fear" of not liking the TCs, would that mean that we can ask from you to be ethnically cleansed from Cyprus to satisfy us?

You do not hinder my human rights are you sure? I cannot even play a friendly football match or have my mail delivered directly without you forcing me to accept your GC run administration which does not represent me.

We are will both try to address each other fears and concerns that why we are doing this exercise. I'm also measuring your compromise and tolerance levels as you appear to more assertive than accommodating.

Thanks for understanding our concern. Here we should note, that by accepting the above you didn't sacrifice any of your legal, human or democratic rights. You just accepted that an illegality from your part should stop.

Getting rid of the army is a big sacrifice for us as they are seen as our sole protectors form the GCs evils. I to have rights to be protected by and army but I willing to forgo any military protection, isn't that a sacrifice? even in the Annan plan we were allowed 650 resident soldiers. I understand your hate and fear for the Turkish army so my viewpoint is I would rather remove them to accommodate your fear and concern. I'm trying give me some credit here.

My Turn: I understand that TCs want to have free trade, so in a united Cyprus TCs will not have any kind of trade restrictions.

Wouldn't that be my right anyway in a united Cyprus just like any other citizen or do you see that as a privileged only for TCs? Please steer of this bread crumb mentality the above is not something you grant me, its something that comes with being equal citizens.

Its not like giving my right to have an army protect me, I forgo this right so you do not feel threatened yet you will "allow" me to trade.

But why going with "your turn", "my turn" and not just say that we should return to legality and everybody will get his full rights back?

I think this step by step approach works best as when we try to do this wholesale we do not agree anything.

Another problem for GCs is the Turkish settlers problem, I would agree immigration criteria with you to allow some automatic citizenship, and some work permits to be renewed or turned into citizenship if we see fit in a united Cyprus. They would all be given alternative housing is they reside in a disputed property and the property would be returned to the GC.

[Piratis]

Aren't you imposing this on me? this i do not like and feel uncomfortable you cannot force me to do anything, you have to try put forward the arguments for returning to a constitution which you yourself state is no good.

What you illegally impose is the occupation. The laws are there to be obeyed. You don't.

Just take it for granted that if we are able to resolve our issues they will leave, end of story.

They should leave right away. Would you accept the opposite? For Cyprus to unite with Greece until we resolve our issues? You have no right to force what you want on us, and if you continue doing this you will get the appropriate answer in kind.

This very much depends on the changes you wish to make and if they are acceptable to us or are they just another regurgitation of the Akritas amendments to water down the effect of the TC community and gain full power.

Changes according to the EU laws. Maybe EU is part of Akritas plan as well?

You will be able to return to your homes where it is physically possible we have agreed this before but I still maintain that many refugees will have to settle for compensation for resolving complicated issues.

It is very physically possible. We are not disabled. What is stopping us is your criminal illegalities.

You do not hinder my human rights are you sure? I cannot even play a friendly football match or have my mail delivered directly without you forcing me to accept your GC run administration which does not represent me.

You are trying to partition the Republic of Cyprus and you receive the consequences of your own actions.

We are will both try to address each other fears and concerns that why we are doing this exercise. I'm also measuring your compromise and tolerance levels as you appear to more assertive than accommodating.

If I demand the violation of your human rights for my gain would you be compromising and accommodating?

Getting rid of the army is a big sacrifice for us as they are seen as our sole protectors form the GCs evils.

no comment

I to have rights to be protected by and army but I willing to forgo any military protection, isn't that a sacrifice?

The sacrifice was made by the GCs that had their lands occupied by the Turkish invaders. You have absolutely no right to occupy RoC. End of story

Wouldn't that be my right anyway in a united Cyprus just like any other citizen or do you see that as a privileged only for TCs? Please steer of this bread crumb mentality the above is not something you grant me, its something that comes with being equal citizens.

Its not like giving my right to have an army protect me, I forgo this right so you do not feel threatened yet you will "allow" me to trade.

You don't allow us to go to our homes, we don't allow you to trade. As I said before, you end the illegalities so we will get what belongs to us and you get what belong to you. If you want to give us back 50% of what belongs to us, then you will get 50% of what belongs to you. Fair?

Another problem for GCs is the Turkish settlers problem, I would agree immigration criteria with you to allow some automatic citizenship, and some work permits to be renewed or turned into citizenship if we see fit in a united Cyprus. They would all be given alternative housing is they reside in a disputed property and the property would be returned to the GC.

And what will you give us in return for allowing some of your illegal settlers in our country?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

What you illegally impose is the occupation. The laws are there to be obeyed. You don't.

Why don't I obey those laws? obviously there were not enough to stop your hidden agenda of riding the "RoC" of it TC element, they mean squat if they do not provide the basic issues which they were designed to do can can be easily manipulated and used against "in case of necessity".
Aren't we trying to create something better than those 1960 agreements which you yourself despise and intend to change as soon as possible to incorporate even the Akritas points which you well know are a bone of contention to our community.

They should leave right away. Would you accept the opposite? For Cyprus to unite with Greece until we resolve our issues? You have no right to force what you want on us, and if you continue doing this you will get the appropriate answer in kind.

They are part and parcel of the total deal, a reduction may be a real possibility but I will not all you to change the power balance as easily as you wish without being given guarantees that you will not use that swing against me at the first opportunity which you seem very capable of.

Your empty threats are relentless as always I will say if you ever get this swing you long for please feel free to finish what you intended to do previously and annihilation all TCs so that you can get the GC state with control over the whole island you desire.

Changes according to the EU laws. Maybe EU is part of Akritas plan as well?

If both sides agree why not

It is very physically possible. We are not disabled. What is stopping us is your criminal illegalities.

We have discussed this before yet you still find it difficult to realize that not all refugees will be able to go home as your leaders promise. Many will have to settle for compensation for the sake of a solution.

You are trying to partition the Republic of Cyprus and you receive the consequences of your own actions.

Well hello Piratis we are partitioned, have been for 32 years and if this is the price for what we have today it is well worth paying have no doubt.

You don't allow us to go to our homes, we don't allow you to trade. As I said before, you end the illegalities so we will get what belongs to us and you get what belong to you. If you want to give us back 50% of what belongs to us, then you will get 50% of what belongs to you. Fair?

I thought the aim of the exercise was to normalise things as much as possible taking into account the concerns of both sides.

And what will you give us in return for allowing some of your illegal settlers in our country?

The right to allow Pontiac Greeks and other nationals you have given citizenship to and allowed to stay under the same criteria as we will apply to the Turkish settlers.

[miltiades]

VP , NO ONE WILL TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY UNLESS YOU STOP FOLLOWING ANKARAS LINE.

The correct spelling of the ROC is so not in inverted commas . The world consists of hundreds of nations all of whom spell the name as such .

[stuballstu]

Viewpoint wrote

Quote:
And what will you give us in return for allowing some of your illegal settlers in our country?


The right to allow Pontiac Greeks and other nationals you have given citizenship to and allowed to stay under the same criteria as we will apply to the Turkish settlers.

Viewpoint

If these people are EU citizens then they have every right to move within the EU. You can't negotiate on that.

I have to say that the title of the thread is interesting.

"Turkey must respect its EU commitments"

Should't the EU also respect the commitments it made to Turkish Cypriots?

Very few GC's remember or indeed want to remember it.

The ROC is attempting to use the EU as leverage to gain consesions from Turkey prior to any political settlement. If Turkey walk away from the EU where does the ROC then turn to?

Is it back to stalemate then?

[Viewpoint]

VP , NO ONE WILL TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY UNLESS YOU STOP FOLLOWING ANKARAS LINE.

The correct spelling of the ROC is so not in inverted commas . The world consists of hundreds of nations all of whom spell the name as such .

Then feel free to go negotiate a solution with them who spell your countries name correctly and see how far you will get, I do not recognize you and you do not recognize me that's what we are trying to resolve and until we do you are just as much pseudo to me as I am to you, how we view each other is more important than the rest of the world as its us that has to agree a solution.

[miltiades]

VP WROTE:
"""Then feel free to go negotiate a solution with them who spell your countries name correctly and see how far you will get, I do not recognize you and you do not recognize me that's what we are trying to resolve and until we do you are just as much pseudo to me as I am to you, how we view each other is more important than the rest of the world as its us that has to agree a solution.""

Your peddling forged currency and you are classifying the internationally recognised currency as forged.
I think you ought to re examine your position.