Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

This is to everyone this forum has gotten very messy over the past few days we have had people even threatening each other.

I agree i can give as good as i get but i always try to be civil and never respond rudely until attacked in a degreading and rude manner.

Lets start with a clean slate and try to understand each other without the rudeness and threats, lets ditch all the snidey remarks and hollier than thou attitude.

I have the guts to sincerely apologise for anything that I have said that has upset anyone on this forum has anybody else? Are we any better than our elders or are we just the same clones who will continue making the same mistakes. The posts over the last few days have gotten us nowhere and Im sure everyone is feeling that its a waste of time posting here, lets stop the bickering and insults and concentrate on the issues not the individuals.

I want to get a better understanding of what GCs think and feel thats why I am here I hope they want to understand us.

Lets see who has the balls to step forward and agree to start afresh?

[andri_cy]

If I have said anything that anyone might have taken offense to I apologise also

[Piratis]

I always said that we should leave the past behind and finally create in Cyprus a democratic state without racist or other discriminations and with the respect of all human rights of all Cypriot citizens regardless of their language, religion or ethnic background.

(1)I believe that the number one thing that needs to be done that will allow us to move ahead is to declare clearly and with no hesitation our respect for the human rights of all of our country men and women regardless of what their background is.

(2)Then we should all accept that the solution of the Cyprus problem should be within the framework of democracy and human rights as well us the other universally accepted principles that every EU country is supposed to follow.

(3)Within this framework we can then negotiate the details of a final solution and then agree on transitional periods that will gradually make Cyprus a normal EU country without a problem.

(4)Hopefully in the end of this long procedure the result will be equal interdependent Cypriots, proud for their Cypriot identity, but at the same time with respect to the linguistic, religious and other differences of their compatriots.

Only if we manage to get rid of this separation of Cypriots into two conflicting groups, which is the root of our problems and what foreigners used to further divide us for their own interests, we can consider the Cyprus problem as solved once and for all.

What I say above has always been my aim. Unfortunately we are always dragged to the past by some people that want to selectively use the past to excuse illegal actions of today. I hope that this trend will finally stop and that we can now look to the future for the benefit of all Cypriots and not for the benefit of one group on the expense of another.

[Viewpoint]

Bravo well said Piratis.

Now all you have to tell us is how do we get there?

Lets divide the issues before us into the following groups(feel free to add any others I have forgotten)

1.Property
2.Settlers
3.Security
4.Political Balance

[Pyrpolizer]

Hey Viewpoint, are we going to do like the Catholics who go confess and the next day they do the same sins? Are you sure that you will never curse again in this forum or hurt other people? So what’s the use of confessing?

This is a debate forum dude, do you know what a debate is? We support diametrically opposite views even if we sometimes don’t even believe our own thesis. We learn through this process by hearing what our opponent says.
In case you did not discover this little secret, then your participation in here has failed. I see people saying "hey you GCs and TCs" you will never agree on anything. I don’t agree on that in fact I can point to hundreds of agreements in this very forum, a typical example was the Kifeas-Kikapu agreement, you remember that?

The fact is we do need to show our bitter feelings for the current situation in Cyprus and the status quo in our discussions. Without such feelings everything would be very boring.
Hey if you as a TC have not yet learned that the GC refugees are very bittered for the deprivation to their lands ans properties, and me as GC has not yet learned the bitter feeling of the TCs living in isolation and behind their true potential, from our participation here, then you can say we both falied.

NB. Don’t get carried away by expressions of bitter feelings and threats. The vast majority of GCs and Tcs are good people, and calm like lump. The vast majority don’t think of the Cyprus problem no more than what the news on TV last. There are a lot of people who got so bored of the news all these years, that they switch to music channels as soon as the news bullettins start.

[Piratis]

Bravo well said Piratis.

Now all you have to tell us is how do we get there?

Lets divide the issues before us into the following groups(feel free to add any others I have forgotten)

1.Property
2.Settlers
3.Security
4.Political Balance

I would put those issues in the negotiation process that I believe should come after (1) and (2) above:

(1)I believe that the number one thing that needs to be done that will allow us to move ahead is to declare clearly and with no hesitation our respect for the human rights of all of our country men and women regardless of what their background is.

(2)Then we should all accept that the solution of the Cyprus problem should be within the framework of democracy and human rights as well us the other universally accepted principles that every EU country is supposed to follow.

Should I assume that we agreed on (1) and (2) and we are now at (3) where we can discuss the details within the above framework?

I believe that this is very important as if we can not agree on the main principles that any solution should follow then discussing the details would be a waste of time.

[Viewpoint]

Bravo well said Piratis.

Now all you have to tell us is how do we get there?

Lets divide the issues before us into the following groups(feel free to add any others I have forgotten)

1.Property
2.Settlers
3.Security
4.Political Balance

I would put those issues in the negotiation process that I believe should come after (1) and (2) above:

(1)I believe that the number one thing that needs to be done that will allow us to move ahead is to declare clearly and with no hesitation our respect for the human rights of all of our country men and women regardless of what their background is.

(2)Then we should all accept that the solution of the Cyprus problem should be within the framework of democracy and human rights as well us the other universally accepted principles that every EU country is supposed to follow.

Should I assume that we agreed on (1) and (2) and we are now at (3) where we can discuss the details within the above framework?

I believe that this is very important as if we can not agree on the main principles that any solution should follow then discussing the details would be a waste of time.

Lets take what you say as standard for the sake of moving forward.

[Viewpoint]

Hey Viewpoint, are we going to do like the Catholics who go confess and the next day they do the same sins? Are you sure that you will never curse again in this forum or hurt other people? So what’s the use of confessing?

This is a debate forum dude, do you know what a debate is? We support diametrically opposite views even if we sometimes don’t even believe our own thesis. We learn through this process by hearing what our opponent says.
In case you did not discover this little secret, then your participation in here has failed. I see people saying "hey you GCs and TCs" you will never agree on anything. I don’t agree on that in fact I can point to hundreds of agreements in this very forum, a typical example was the Kifeas-Kikapu agreement, you remember that?

The fact is we do need to show our bitter feelings for the current situation in Cyprus and the status quo in our discussions. Without such feelings everything would be very boring.
Hey if you as a TC have not yet learned that the GC refugees are very bittered for the deprivation to their lands ans properties, and me as GC has not yet learned the bitter feeling of the TCs living in isolation and behind their true potential, from our participation here, then you can say we both falied.

NB. Don’t get carried away by expressions of bitter feelings and threats. The vast majority of GCs and Tcs are good people, and calm like lump. The vast majority don’t think of the Cyprus problem no more than what the news on TV last. There are a lot of people who got so bored of the news all these years, that they switch to music channels as soon as the news bullettins start.

The firey reactions we give are not the issue we have mediterranean blood after all but to wish some dead or call some a faggot is going to far. That why I suggested we start afresh with a clean slate and steer clear of personal insults. Is it to difficult for you?

[zan]

Lets concentrate on item one, Property. There are two sets of human rights issues on the table and they are both conflicting with one another. They cannot be based solely on a legal outcome but must also take in humanitarian issues. Without the respect for humanitarian issues the whole thing stumbles at the first post. If you genuinely want to start with the situation as it is today then full consideration should be given to the civilian population that are living in these properties as well as the people who have claim on them.

[Viewpoint]

Zan with property I feel that GCs and TC should get back any land that has not been utlized immediately. Those TC refugees living in GC property and vice versa can either agree with GC/TC to rent buy or exchange anything they have in the south. The properties which have been sold or utlized should be compensated at market prices and paid to the refugee be it TC or GC as soon as possbile by either the current occupant or TRNC/Turkey/RoC.

This is the only way i can see resolving this problem otherwise we will be creating an even bigger mess if we try to throw out all the current users of disputed land.