Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Hmm not really. The GC president of the Republic could have zero support from the Tcs as he is elected separately. The same goes for the TC vice president, he could have zero support from the GCs. All the President needs to have is TC Ministers with whom he would have a mutual trust. Nothing more than that. FYI when Makarios was elected he did not get a single TC vote as the TCs don’t vote for President.

I never quite understood why it was done like this...I mean surely in a democratic country, everyone should be allowed to vote for their president/Vice president?

Peace!

In normal countries you are right but here in Cyprus where the populations are very ethnically divided and 80% of the population is GC you will never see a TC president ever, as GCs would vote not the best man for the job but even a monkey (and they do ) as long as he was GC in origin and not TC. We would be squeezed out of all the governmental bodies and effect we would have no say in a GC state, where we would be left at the mercy of GCs and our past experience tells us we do not want to be in such as position ever again:shock:

[reportfromcyprus]

i. Affirming that Cyprus is our common home and recalling that we were co-founders of the Republic established in 1960

ii. Resolved that the tragic events of the past shall never be repeated and renouncing forever the threat or the use of force, or any domination by or of either side

iii. Acknowledging each other's distinct identity and integrity and that our relationship is not one of majority and minority but of political equality

iv. Deciding to renew our partnership on that basis and determined that this new partnership shall ensure a common future in friendship, peace, security and prosperity in an independent and united Cyprus

v. Underlining our commitment to international law and the principles and purposes of the United Nations

vi. Committed to respecting democratic principles, individual human rights and fundamental freedoms, as well as each other's cultural, religious, political, social and linguistic identity

vii. Determined to maintain special ties of friendship with, and to respect the balance between, Greece and Turkey, within a peaceful environment in the Eastern Mediterranean

viii. Looking forward to joining the European Union, and to the day when Turkey does likewise

ix. Welcoming the Comprehensive Settlement freely reached by our democratically elected leaders on all aspects of the Cyprus Problem, and its endorsement by Greece and Turkey, along with the United Kingdom

These are some of the principles upon which the last UN reunification plan were based. They sound pretty solid to me.

[Alexis]

These are some of the principles upon which the last UN reunification plan were based. They sound pretty solid to me.

Yes they are solid. Personally I did not like the Annan Plan's mention of Greece and Turkey and UK beyond the fact that we can should special ties with them. I think that an overhaul of the 1960s agreements is required to get rid of the guarantor status of these countries. I suspect a lot of Cypriots will disagree with me, but that is my opinion. I also do not see why Greece, UK and Turkey should have to endorse any plan agreed amongst Cypriots.

[Kikapu]

These are some of the principles upon which the last UN reunification plan were based. They sound pretty solid to me.

Yes they are solid. Personally I did not like the Annan Plan's mention of Greece and Turkey and UK beyond the fact that we can should special ties with them. I think that an overhaul of the 1960s agreements is required to get rid of the guarantor status of these countries. I suspect a lot of Cypriots will disagree with me, but that is my opinion. I also do not see why Greece, UK and Turkey should have to endorse any plan agreed amongst Cypriots.

While you're at it, try to get the British Bases out of Cyprus also. Well, I don't think the British will want to leave Cyprus, therefore, they cannot be excluded from the 1960 Constitution, which Greece will also not want to be excluded, and Turkey will want to stay also. So, we're back to square one.!!

[reportfromcyprus]

Those big powers are quite firm on their approach towards Cyprus - think about it - the Greek army, the British army and the Turkish army all have positions here.

That's why the issue of Cyprus on the world stage can always have potentially disastrous consequences. Three NATO military powers, all in one place.

Now things are different than they were in the 1960's, especially with Turkey & Greece, that are moving closer together - they are not enemies as they were decades ago.

[Alexis]

With regards the British Bases why can't there be a separate treaty with the UK on the bases where we negotiate their future. We could for instance try to negotiate a leasehold for the bases that pretty much guarantees their future for the next say 100 years or whatever. Why does this have to be enshrined in the constitution of the country?
Why mix the issue of British bases with negotiations for the comprehensive settlement of the Cyprus issue?
Similarly, any other special arrangements with either Greece or Turkey could be dealt with in this way. I could understand having these countries being part of the constitution in 1960 since Cyprus was being given independence but now, assuming a settlement is reached (which is the basis for this discussion) there is no reason why these countries should have to endorse the constitution of Cyprus. Again, I realise that with regards security many Cypriots are in favour of having guarantor powers, I just feel that in order to move forwards and build a nation we shouldn't need the endorsement of these other countries which may or may not have our best interests at heart.

[Alexis]

Those big powers are quite firm on their approach towards Cyprus - think about it - the Greek army, the British army and the Turkish army all have positions here.

Only because of the 1960 constitution which makes them guarantor powers. This is what I would plan to change as I don't feel having these foreign troops benefits the island. How can you 'demilitarise' the island getting rid of all Cypriot forces but actively maintain foreign troops other than the UN which could continue to be in Cyprus at the governments invitation until such a point when both communities are happy to see them leave?

Again here I am talking in the event of a settlement agreed by both communities.

[bakala]

Alexis

Partition of the island is the only answer to the problem for both sides, independence for the Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots alike. Both free to determine their own futures without outside political pressure, both having a part of the island to live in, in peace. The only stumbling block is how much Island they will each have, and of course the age old land issue.

First an agreement to live in peace and to foster open trade right across the island, Open trade will heal many old wounds, the drive to do business for mutual advantage will make most people forget the past, Only those who seek power will keep the political pot boiling, not for the sake of the ordinary people but for their own political ends.

The politicians thrive on the Cyprus problem and they don’t want any change that gives up any of the power they currently hold, so change is not in their interests, After all its difficult to give up the throne once you are king. However the simple people need the changes and the security of self determination, they also need to feel secure, and the politicians play the oldest game in the world, keep the people at each others throats so they can maintain their power.



True freedom has a hidden price,
for you to have it . Everyone must have it.
Otherwise it’s just a dream you hold
for if you deny it to others, someday you will wake
And realise that the dream has gone with the waking


.

[Alexis]

Partition of the island is the only answer to the problem for both sides, independence for the Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots alike. Both free to determine their own futures without outside political pressure, both having a part of the island to live in, in peace. The only stumbling block is how much Island they will each have, and of course the age old land issue.

First of all I don't agree, partition is not the way forward. It was specifically forbidden by the 1960 agreements and in fact no government on this planet has endorsed partition as the way forward with the exception of Turkey (and TRNC for completeness), which has also recently said she now supports the unification of the country.
Second isn't this as big a stumbling-block as negotiating for a unified Cyprus? How exactly are we going to agree on partition of the island? I've seen posts on this forum already discussing the issue and there didn't seem to be much agreement on the details of partition.

First an agreement to live in peace and to foster open trade right across the island, Open trade will heal many old wounds, the drive to do business for mutual advantage will make most people forget the past, Only those who seek power will keep the political pot boiling, not for the sake of the ordinary people but for their own political ends.

Absolutely agree here. To be honest though I don't think this is in dispute. There may be those that bask in controversy but the majority of people and politicians agree that open trade is beneficial, and this wqould of course happen if we were united under a BBF. Question is, how do we get there?

The politicians thrive on the Cyprus problem and they don’t want any change that gives up any of the power they currently hold, so change is not in their interests, After all its difficult to give up the throne once you are king. However the simple people need the changes and the security of self determination, they also need to feel secure, and the politicians play the oldest game in the world, keep the people at each others throats so they can maintain their power.

So here we go again 'self-determination', are we not all Cypriots?
If we believe that we are so different because of our Greek and Turkish heritage why not just join Greece and Turkey respe-ctively?

[Kifeas]

Alexios, why do you waste your time arguing with the above mentally retarded sick fanatic, whether partition is or is not the only way forward? Why don’t you just tell him to first go and convince the leadership of his own community which continues to claim that is only interested in a re-unifying solution, and then to come here and try to convince the GCs about it?

Bakkal, just go and convince Talat first that he should drop his goal and pledge that he only wants a re-unification solution, instead of wasting our time by having us read your nonsense!

And by the way Bakkal, since you claim that partition is the only solution, can you also show us your map of Cyprus with the 18% of the territory that will be held by the TCs?

Idiot!