Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Kifeas misses the point that without trust between the communities, there is no basic unity.

Based on which of my posts did you extract the conclusion that I miss the point that trust is one of the essential ingredients for unity to be achieved?

What we have is an enforced separation of the two communities.

And who has enforced this separation? Do you know?
And who continues to enforce this separation? Do you again know?

The lawyers on each side are encouraging divorce - wasn't it the present president who went on television to encourage the GC community to reject the UN plan?

I see you are becoming a champion in regurgitating clichés and slogans?
Where is the logic in the above claiming of yours that because Papadopoulos is encouraging divorce, just because he rejected a biased, unfair and unworkable solution proposal? Do you know what logic is? And which are the lawyers that encourage divorce, among the GC community?

Wasn't it Denktas who was relieved that the plan didn't go through? Yes it was.

And?
Is this the kind of logic you apply, so that you conclude that Papadopoulos also encourages divorce? Have you ever taken an IQ test? I suggest you never do that because you will become very depressed from the result.

No matter what the justification either side has, a divorce is inevitable without goodwill, compromise and looking to the future instead of the past.

And in which way the GC leadership could have shown its goodwill, but it deliberately failed to do so, so that your above assertion is justified as far as the GC community is concerned?

[Viewpoint]

Was this to allow 37% of the land distribution in favor of the TRNC? will all these GCs want to come back some will accept compensation for land used. Some will not want to reside in the north. So if you have discussed it with bg then it is viable.

Yes, you are right, quite a few GCs would not want to come back, especially to live in an independent TRNC. All will insist, however, on the option to return, if not to their actual homes then to their village. Many/most will choose to get compensation. Of course in this situation the GC minority could insist on minority rights in the TRNC (such as a quota system for government positions and a certain number of representatives). What we will end up with is southern Cyprus with no Turkish influence and a TRNC with a Greek minority. This is certainly a viable option for discussion, I just cannot see it being easier to agree on the details than it would be to agree to the details of a unification plan. Moreover the benefits of unification to Cyprus' economy and the clout of a unified Cyprus over a split country in the international arena are of benefit to both communities.

Alexis the balance could also be influenced by certain areas being given back to accomadate as many GC refugees as possible, that way the TRNC could be reduced to the region 29%. The minority would of course be dealt with all the privilideges you GCs see fit for us but they would have to live and accept and abide by the laws of the TRNC just like anyone else. Your country already in the EU and the TRNC aspiring to enter sometime in the future.

If we cant agree to unite then the next best thing is to agree division less for both sides to argue about a clean break you go your way we go ours is the best alternative as we Cypriots will just continue to argue and argue.

We could also set a date say 2008, if no solution is found the island is opffically divided with x amount of GCs having the right to return. This in itself may force some people to wake up and compromise.

[Kifeas]

Alexis

just stating that my " narritive is inaccurate " doesent work mate, Justify your statement with facts if you can, the Intention to intervene by the British Goverment is officialy known as fact because the secrecy act that keeps documents relating to those times buried from public view ran out of its 25 years in the year 2000, its all a matter of public record and cant be denied

Bakaliaro,

Can you name me one single book of the numerous good researches that were made by accredited authors, in relation to Cyprus and the events you are talking about, that you have been able to read in the past? Tell me a title of such a book you have read! I bet you have read nothing, because if you have done so you wouldn't have claimed all the numerous nonsense you did already! Please, just do us a favour and stop wasting our time having to read your posts!

[Kifeas]

Bakaliaro,

Since you continue to insist propagandising in favour of partition, (regardless of the numerous factual mistakes in your little narration above and contrary to the official policy of the current Turkish Cypriot leadership,) I have yet to see your map of Cyprus with the 18% of the partitioned area for the Turkish Cypriots. Why is it taking you so long to present us with such a map Bakarialo? Is it difficult for you to decide which 18% of Cyprus to cut off from the rest?

Attitudes like that are why Cyprus is moving further away from peace and compromise and closer to the rigid thinking brought about by propaganda, hatred and bitterness.

I'm not prepared to accept that this kind of nationalist thinking will prevail. It's not going to be all one way or the other, it never is. Without the spirit of compromise, nothing will change.

Can you please translate the above, or is it just a nonsense written in English?

Suddenly you don't understand English?

Therefore you have indeed posted a nonsense in English! Thanks for letting me know!

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas you are at it again by trying to shut people up, you can not do this it is a public forum anyone can contribute if you dont like his posts because they are not inline with your mindset then ignore them. You will never change.

[reportfromcyprus]

Bakaliaro,

Since you continue to insist propagandising in favour of partition, (regardless of the numerous factual mistakes in your little narration above and contrary to the official policy of the current Turkish Cypriot leadership,) I have yet to see your map of Cyprus with the 18% of the partitioned area for the Turkish Cypriots. Why is it taking you so long to present us with such a map Bakarialo? Is it difficult for you to decide which 18% of Cyprus to cut off from the rest?

Attitudes like that are why Cyprus is moving further away from peace and compromise and closer to the rigid thinking brought about by propaganda, hatred and bitterness.

I'm not prepared to accept that this kind of nationalist thinking will prevail. It's not going to be all one way or the other, it never is. Without the spirit of compromise, nothing will change.

Can you please translate the above, or is it just a nonsense written in English?

Suddenly you don't understand English?

Therefore you have indeed posted a nonsense in English! Thanks for letting me know!

You consistently refuse to comment on the substance of the arguments presented and instead are insulting and rude, trying to distract attention away from anything you disagree with.

That reduces your credibility, don't you realise that?

[Kifeas]

Alexis the balance could also be influenced by certain areas being given back to accomadate as many GC refugees as possible, that way the TRNC could be reduced to the region 29%. The minority would of course be dealt with all the privilideges you GCs see fit for us but they would have to live and accept and abide by the laws of the TRNC just like anyone else. Your country already in the EU and the TRNC aspiring to enter sometime in the future.

Viewpoint, forget this kind of arrangement you are trying to "suggest!"

It is either a re-unification solution, or an 82:18 percent partition! The only third alternatively is the current status quo until you come to your senses and change your minds, or until we are strong enough to come and get back what belongs to us and which you have stolen, in the same way that you have stolen it back in 1974! The choice is yours!

[Kifeas]

Bakaliaro,

Since you continue to insist propagandising in favour of partition, (regardless of the numerous factual mistakes in your little narration above and contrary to the official policy of the current Turkish Cypriot leadership,) I have yet to see your map of Cyprus with the 18% of the partitioned area for the Turkish Cypriots. Why is it taking you so long to present us with such a map Bakarialo? Is it difficult for you to decide which 18% of Cyprus to cut off from the rest?

Attitudes like that are why Cyprus is moving further away from peace and compromise and closer to the rigid thinking brought about by propaganda, hatred and bitterness.

I'm not prepared to accept that this kind of nationalist thinking will prevail. It's not going to be all one way or the other, it never is. Without the spirit of compromise, nothing will change.

Can you please translate the above, or is it just a nonsense written in English?

Suddenly you don't understand English?

Therefore you have indeed posted a nonsense in English! Thanks for letting me know!

You consistently refuse to comment on the substance of the arguments presented and instead are insulting and rude, trying to distract attention away from anything you disagree with.

That reduces your credibility, don't you realise that?

Where is the substance in your posts? I have seen no substance but only nonsense clichés and repetitions of what the Turkish propaganda tries to pass around with the help of its Anglo-American friends and paid agents (journalists, diplomats and academics!) Tell us what you suggest we do and why? To get the Annan plan back and re-vote it? That is perhaps your only suggestion, along the wishes of some foreigners, but unfortunately for you this cannot be done, because the people have already decided! Anything else?

[reportfromcyprus]

Kifeas misses the point that without trust between the communities, there is no basic unity.

Based on which of my posts did you extract the conclusion that I miss the point that trust is one of the essential ingredients for unity to be achieved?

What we have is an enforced separation of the two communities.

And who has enforced this separation? Do you know?
And who continues to enforce this separation? Do you again know?

The lawyers on each side are encouraging divorce - wasn't it the present president who went on television to encourage the GC community to reject the UN plan?

I see you are becoming a champion in regurgitating clichés and slogans?
Where is the logic in the above claiming of yours that because Papadopoulos is encouraging divorce, just because he rejected a biased, unfair and unworkable solution proposal? Do you know what logic is? And which are the lawyers that encourage divorce, among the GC community?

Wasn't it Denktas who was relieved that the plan didn't go through? Yes it was.

And?
Is this the kind of logic you apply, so that you conclude that Papadopoulos also encourages divorce? Have you ever taken an IQ test? I suggest you never do that because you will become very depressed from the result.

No matter what the justification either side has, a divorce is inevitable without goodwill, compromise and looking to the future instead of the past.

And in which way the GC leadership could have shown its goodwill, but it deliberately failed to do so, so that your above assertion is justified as far as the GC community is concerned?

Point 1: Based on your insulting manner and refusal to listen to anyone else. Your whole attitude oozes distrust, anger, bitterness and fear.

Point 2: Turkey has enforced this separation - illegal or not - it's enforced.

Point 3: He's encouraging divorce because there's precious little progress made towards a solution! The lawyer reference is a METAPHOR.

Point 4: Too silly to even consider.

Point 5: When the borders were opened, all possible efforts should have been made to create bicommunal events, joint administration institutions, cooperation across the borders in general. Where are those initiatives?

[Viewpoint]

Alexis the balance could also be influenced by certain areas being given back to accomadate as many GC refugees as possible, that way the TRNC could be reduced to the region 29%. The minority would of course be dealt with all the privilideges you GCs see fit for us but they would have to live and accept and abide by the laws of the TRNC just like anyone else. Your country already in the EU and the TRNC aspiring to enter sometime in the future.

Viewpoint, forget this kind of arrangement you are trying to "suggest!"

It is either a re-unification solution, or an 82:18 percent partition! The only third alternatively is the current status quo until you come to your senses and change your minds, or until we are strong enough to come and get back what belongs to us and which you have stolen, in the same way that you have stolen it back in 1974! The choice is yours!

Do you now have a mandate to speak for all GCs Kifeas, may I see it?

Im pretty certain there would be a sufficent demand from your country men to come live in the TRNC that would bolster our land claim to 29%, this you would have to accept as even an 18% split would mean a % of that would be GC owned thus making the figure grow.

The current status quo can will remain until or if we ever find a solution so we really dont have a choice there we are bound to you on that one. You say no to comprehensive solution plans which does not have a habit of coming around as frequently as no 50 red bus.

The last alternative is of course waiting for a swing in the power stakes, really depends how soon you can flex your muscle and learn to shoot straight