Cyprus-Forum.com

[bakala]

Pyrpolizer

In 1974 a couple of weeks before Turkey landed the intervention force a very good mate of mine was serving in the Royal Navy on the Aircraft carrier HMS Hermes. at the time they were stationed in the Gulf, the Gulf fleet was ordered to move to the Mediterranean,

At the same time Royal marine commandos on winter training in Norway were ordered to Gibraltar, Infantry ,engineer Tank and artillery units were moved from the front line in Germany. they were assembled for transport to Gibraltar, High level discussions were going on between British and Spanish diplomats to allow British armed forces to be moved through Spain to Gibraltar. ( A very sensitive issue at the time )

The Gulf Fleet Had to sail around Africa because the British war cabinet wouldn't allow the fleet to sail through the Suez canal.

Britain was preparing to intervene but Turkey beat them too it, they had prevaricated so long discussing if to intervene or not, that they left it too late,

Because of the Coup Turkey couldn't wait any longer and once preparations were under way the intervention couldn't be delayed.

I would very seriously doubt that under kleridis that the Turkish Cypriots were safe, and i would very much debate that not a single Turkish Cypriot died when Kleridis briefly held power. The 2000 or so Greek Cypriots that died, died in Greek V Greek fighting those who opposed Enosis were eradicated by those who supported it, lets not forget the Turkish Cypriots were driven into enclaves , the suggestion that they had formed a state within a state is ridiculous, they were driven into tiny areas just like the Jews in the second world war and cut off from the outside world and from each other.

The Statement you made that " the coup was staged so that Turkey would use it for an excuse to invade " is preposterous beyond words. Turkey had no way of inciting the coup, those idiots who couldn't wait for Enosis staged the coup, and after the Greeks who demanded Enosis had finished with the Greeks who opposed it, the Turkish Cypriots would have without doubt seen their last Sunrise.

After the Coup the Turkish Cypriots faced a new and very real threat of annihilation, that's why Turkey intervened.

The intervention was called an invasion by the Greeks and the name stuck. the safe area in the north became the Occupied lands and the name stuck, Turkey won the war but lost the propaganda war to the masters of deception the Greeks, and the masters of deception still influence those who inhabit the boards with their lies and half truths,

Until the truth of those times is admitted by both sides the problem will never go away and the sore will never heal.

There are elements in the Greek Cypriot community who only want to dominate the whole island they never think of sharing it with their Turkish Cypriot nieghbors, they will settle for nothing less than total domination of the whole island and dominion over the Turksih Cypriots, thats why partition is the only answer because the Turksi Cypriots will not under any circumstances trust again a Greek Cypriot goverment and i dont blame them.


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[Kifeas]

Bakaliaro,

Since you continue to insist propagandising in favour of partition, (regardless of the numerous factual mistakes in your little narration above and contrary to the official policy of the current Turkish Cypriot leadership,) I have yet to see your map of Cyprus with the 18% of the partitioned area for the Turkish Cypriots. Why is it taking you so long to present us with such a map Bakarialo? Is it difficult for you to decide which 18% of Cyprus to cut off from the rest?

[Alexis]

Until the truth of those times is admitted by both sides the problem will never go away and the sore will never heal

About the only part of your narrative to which I will agree. What you fail to realise is that your narrative is far from the truth.

[reportfromcyprus]

Bakaliaro,

Since you continue to insist propagandising in favour of partition, (regardless of the numerous factual mistakes in your little narration above and contrary to the official policy of the current Turkish Cypriot leadership,) I have yet to see your map of Cyprus with the 18% of the partitioned area for the Turkish Cypriots. Why is it taking you so long to present us with such a map Bakarialo? Is it difficult for you to decide which 18% of Cyprus to cut off from the rest?

Attitudes like that are why Cyprus is moving further away from peace and compromise and closer to the rigid thinking brought about by propaganda, hatred and bitterness.

I'm not prepared to accept that this kind of nationalist thinking will prevail. It's not going to be all one way or the other, it never is. Without the spirit of compromise, nothing will change.

[reportfromcyprus]

Until the truth of those times is admitted by both sides the problem will never go away and the sore will never heal

About the only part of your narrative to which I will agree. What you fail to realise is that your narrative is far from the truth.

The truth is that the past is history and this country's future is being held back by the refusal of the government to compromise and reveal its agenda IN DETAIL. We keep getting broad generalisations that could mean anything.

[Alexis]

Attitudes like that are why Cyprus is moving further away from peace and compromise and closer to the rigid thinking brought about by propaganda, hatred and bitterness.

I'm not prepared to accept that this kind of nationalist thinking will prevail. It's not going to be all one way or the other, it never is. Without the spirit of compromise, nothing will change.

Unfortunately reportfromcyprus, Kifeas has a point. Many people think partition is the way forward, without realising that to agree to this most GCs will probably insist on an 80:20 split in the land. How exactly is this going to happen without causing more heartache, especially for the TCs? No one is going to agree to partition and what's more it's not going to benefit anyone even if it does happen.

[Alexis]

The truth is that the past is history and this country's future is being held back by the refusal of the government to compromise and reveal its agenda IN DETAIL. We keep getting broad generalisations that could mean anything.

I agree here my point was simply that reconciliation is not going to happen through a one-sided view of past events. bakalas' narrative was not only historically innaccurate but was also a view which fails to appreciate the GC community's point of view. Re-conciliation will of course take time to reach as trust is built up between the two communities and mulling over the details of the past history is, as you rightly say, not going to get us anywhere. In my view it is simply enough for each community to acknowledge the other's point of view and apologise for past attrocities which both sides are guilty of, the passing of time will do the rest.

[bakala]

Alexis

how on earth do you think the Greek Cypriots can insist on a split of 80:20 of the land ?
the North is the North and the south the south. i dont see why the Turkish Cypriots should hand over any of the land they now occupy, why should they ?

As for partition not benifiting anyone , what you mean is it wont benifit you. and thas all you care about you !

[reportfromcyprus]

Attitudes like that are why Cyprus is moving further away from peace and compromise and closer to the rigid thinking brought about by propaganda, hatred and bitterness.

I'm not prepared to accept that this kind of nationalist thinking will prevail. It's not going to be all one way or the other, it never is. Without the spirit of compromise, nothing will change.

Unfortunately reportfromcyprus, Kifeas has a point. Many people think partition is the way forward, without realising that to agree to this most GCs will probably insist on an 80:20 split in the land. How exactly is this going to happen without causing more heartache, especially for the TCs? No one is going to agree to partition and what's more it's not going to benefit anyone even if it does happen.

Kifeas misses the point that without trust between the communities, there is no basic unity. What we have is an enforced separation of the two communities. The lawyers on each side are encouraging divorce - wasn't it the present president who went on television to encourage the GC community to reject the UN plan? Wasn't it Denktas who was relieved that the plan didn't go through? Yes it was.

No matter what the justification either side has, a divorce is inevitable without goodwill, compromise and looking to the future instead of the past.

[reportfromcyprus]

The truth is that the past is history and this country's future is being held back by the refusal of the government to compromise and reveal its agenda IN DETAIL. We keep getting broad generalisations that could mean anything.

I agree here my point was simply that reconciliation is not going to happen through a one-sided view of past events. bakalas' narrative was not only historically innaccurate but was also a view which fails to appreciate the GC community's point of view. Re-conciliation will of course take time to reach as trust is built up between the two communities and mulling over the details of the past history is, as you rightly say, not going to get us anywhere. In my view it is simply enough for each community to acknowledge the other's point of view and apologise for past attrocities which both sides are guilty of, the passing of time will do the rest.

Agree with you Alexis.