Cyprus-Forum.com

[andri_cy]

Yes the "little people" just wanted to live in peace with each other. Too bad the people in power didnt.

[Mickleham]

I am a very proud Cypriot and it does not bother me the ethnicity or religious beliefs of my fellow Cypriots and respected them equally and i criticize them based on merit with out favours.

That's pretty rich coming from the same person who wanted to ban all American-Cypriots because they live in the US.
And just so you don't ask me what I am talking about here is the reminder:
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7434

koukla mou that was a bite for you!

[Piratis]

You have burned 100 times more houses and killed 100 times more people, and then you are trying to present yourselves as the victims and the GCs as the aggressors?? oh please!!!

Piratis, read the above again and again and then ask yourself who, apart from you and your fellow nationalist Greeks would really believe it. Look, you silly little man, how many times do you need to be told? Nobody believes you, nobody sees you as the victim and no goddamn decent being on this planet would sympathise with you, if they did they would have solved your problem for you 30 years ago.

You were the aggressors, you were the killers and rapists, you tried to wipe out a whole race for the sake of fucking ENOSIS. Turkey gave you a well deserved slap and told you to behave. This is the long and short of the Cyprus issue. Since that slap you have behaved and the violence has ended. What's wrong with that?

since you are asking again, here is the answer again:

First of all I have to make something very clear:

I believe that we should leave the past behind, we should forgive each other, stop all illegalities and move ahead with a united democratic country without racist discriminations and with respect to the human rights of all Cypriots.

Unfortunately I notice that there some people that insist on using a tiny and selective part of the past as an excuse for the continuation of illegalities and their demand for a "solution" that will be based on racist discrimination of people based on their ethnic background (which is something that exists in no democratic country in the world)

To those people Greek Cypriots deserved the violations of their human rights for the last 32 years and they deserve to be convicted for eternal violation of their human rights in a country that discriminates against them because of their race.

The fact is however that Turks in Cyprus have committed 100 times more crimes against Greek Cypriots than the other way around.

Greek Cypriots have been the majority on the island of Cyprus for 3000+ years. Their interaction with Turks starts in the 15th century, were the Turks attacked our island. This also answers the question "Who started it" for anybody that thinks that this is important:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted. Word of the massacre spread, and a few days later Mustafa took Kyrenia without having to fire a shot. Famagusta, however, resisted and put up a heroic defense that lasted from September 1570 until August 1571.

So now it is clear how the interaction of Turks with Greek Cypriots started in Cyprus, and the question "Who started it" is answered as well.

What followed were 300 years of Ottoman rule in Cyprus. During these 3 centuries Greek Cypriots were oppressed second category citizens. They had to pay multiple times the taxes of muslims and their testimony in courts was not accepted. Whenever they tried to revolt against their oppressors they were slaughtered.

So here we have a period were Turks were oppressing and killing Greeks in Cyprus. The result of this period was 300 years of oppression against GCs and 10s of thousands of Greek Cypriots dead.

The next "round" of conflict between the two communities was at the end of the British rule in Cyprus, and then from 63 to 68. During this period extremists from both sides were committing crimes and atrocities.

This is the only period that TCs remember, but even here they remember only their own casualties and not the crimes that they had committed against GCs.

So this is a period were both sides had about an equal number of casualties, some 100s for each side.

Then in 1974 the illegal coupists overthrow our president and Turkey found the excuse to invade Cyprus. No TC was killed by the coupists before the invasion had started, but only after.
The result of the coup/invasion was 6000 GCs dead and 200.000 GCs ethnically cleansed. On the other side the TCs had only a couple of 100s of victims.

The next period is the 32 years of illegal occupation and insistence from Turkey to violate international law and human rights. This continues until today.

Conclusion:
1) The Turks "started it" in the 15th century
2) The Turks have committed much much more crimes against Greek Cypriots.
3) The Turks insist on their crimes today
4) Greek Cypriots have committed crimes as well, but only a tiny fraction of the crimes that the Turks have committed.

Still, Greek Cypriots are more than willing to put all these behind as long as we are not provoked by people that remember only the 1% of history that suits that in order to prove that Greek Cypriots are the evil people that deserve even more crimes against them.

Therefore I ask from people on this forum to either:

1) Leave the past behind. Do not try to excuse crimes and illegalities in 2006 with events that happened in the past. Concentrate on how we can find a solution that will respect all Cypriots equally without racist discriminations and human right violations.

Or, if doing (1) is impossible for you then at least:

2) If you believe that the past should be used to determine who is the "good" and who is the "bad" one and that this should be the basis of solving the Cyprus problem (instead of democracy, human rights and legality, that I propose) then at least use the whole history and not the tiny bits that suit you.

[Piratis]

Pyrpolizer

Just for the record. you assume that anyone buying land in north Cyprus must be buying ex Greek Cypriot land, Why is that ?
don't you know that many Turkish Cypriots owned land in North Cyprus prior to the attempt to annihilate them.

you assume that all of Cyprus belongs to Greek Cypriots and none of it to Turkish Cypriots, is that why they were marked for their very own final solution ?

We assume that YOU bought Greek Cypriot land because it is clear from your sayings.

Secondly who and where a Greek Cypriot said that Cyprus belongs only to Greek Cypriots? It seems to me your brain are full of Turkish propoganda and you don't even listen what we in fact say. You just imagine what we say because it makes you feel better to imagine than to listen.

What we said time after time is that Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots, including Greek Cypriots, Turkish Cypriots, Armenian Cypriots, Maronite Cypriots, Latin Cypriots etc. Is it clear now? Can this information pass into your mind, or you will insist of just imaging what we say instead of listening to what we say, in which case I wonder what exactly is your purpose of participating here. (actually I know your purpose: To reproduce Turkish propoganda thinking that in this way you are helping yourself to maintain what you currently illegaly occupy)

The troubles only started because your kind of despotic idiot wouldn't share the island with your less numerous neighbors the Turkish Cypriots, The drive for enosis by the politician's of the day led these simple hospitable people, both Greek and Turkish Cypriots, to an undeclared civil war, those who opposed the enosis with Greece were eradicated both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots were murdered by the Greek Cypriot militia and those Eoka Thugs simply for opposing enosis.

If you want to see how it all started see my previews post. But of course for you it is OK if foreigners (Ottomans, British etc) control Cyprus, but if Cyprus was controled in a democratic way by its own population it is not OK!

If the British had allowed Cypriots to decide in democratic way how they wanted their island to be de-colonized, then there would be no need for Cypriots to revolt and try to get their rights by force.
Have a look here: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm and you will see that "integration into an independent State" should have also been an option for Cypriots to democratically choose.
Unfortunately the colonialists didn't allow that to happen and instead of giving Cypriots their freedom they continued to fight against us and in the end they didn't even let us decide the destiny of our island in a democratic way but instead they forced on us what they wanted.

Your answer to everything is Violence and threats, you really do need to grow up a bit, this board is for mature people not for ranting little kids who just bore us all with the same old claptrap
.

This forum is not for illegal criminals like you either. Telling to you that you will pay the penalty of violating the laws of Republic of Cyprus, which you admitted you totally disregard, is not a threat but the truth.

[Mickleham]

My Dear mrfromng & Mr Piratis,

I do not know if you are from Turkish decent and i do not care from which decent are you coming from.

We are all Cypriots First. Which side suffered more or less should not be a consideration at this point of time. The Cypriot majority never wanted bloody Enosis. The Cypriot majority never wanted and they do not want it now or are trust the Greeks. The same goes for the Turks. They majority of Cypriots never wanted the Turks in Cyprus either. The past is past. One can use it for reference only.

Do not generalise and speak as if everyone was agreeable or accepted what has happened to my fellow Cypriots?
Kikapu has chosen and adopted another country as his land to make a life since 1964. He is free to visit the whole of cyprus with out feeling guilty in any way. No one in cyprus will know or care which part of cyprus is he visiting or moving ot staying. I do not know what is the issue?
He remembers things the way they ware then. On more than one occasion in the recent past he tried to engulf me to show hatred against my fellow Cypriot brothers.
He is an old mind. He is hard to change from his discriminatory and racist mind. Just simply scroll through his post's in this forum to realise and understand. The evidence is there.
Not to say that he is alone and not to say that he has not have irresponsible naive accomplices ( casual andri_cy, or/you falling into the his trap & others) who involuntarily encourage him here to think that he is a kind of "superman" or untouchable in this forum. Neither i am saying or have evidence that he is a bad person.

I am a very proud Cypriot and it does not bother me the ethnicity or religious beliefs of my fellow Cypriots and respected them equally and i criticize them based on merit with out favours.

I wish you all here adhere to some principals and then better things will come to our long suffering young nation and our people.

Mickleham,

I swear to you, I read the above three times, and each time I came to the same conclusion, and that is: What the hell are you on about.?? Perhaps you should try and tackle one subject at a time, so that perhaps you would make sense as to what is it that you want to say.

As far as being a "Superman", that role is already being played by Sotos. !!

I'm going to be nice to you today and not repeat the "titles" I have chosen for you, even though you have earned them all by yourself.!!

Please provide us all to see, all my racist and discriminatory posts you claim that I have made.

Oh, one more thing, I did not choose to leave Cyprus, rather it was brought on us to leave Cyprus, back in 1964.!!

You can use any tittles you might wish. I have no intention to go as low as you.

As about you being racist please go back yourself 2-3 weeks ago and find out what did you wrote to me. At the time i did not reply to you because i felt it was hopeless to educate you. I still feel the same today.

Just take a trip back home for a few weeks, otherwise you will never ever get out of your mind the miserable past.

You have hatred and even though you might be a good person that hatred re appears on quite often, as such a visit to Cyprus will updated you mind and perhaps you can turn to be a realist from the experience.

[Kikapu]

As about you being racist please go back yourself 2-3 weeks ago and find out what did you wrote to me. At the time i did not reply to you because i felt it was hopeless to educate you. I still feel the same today.

Just take a trip back home for a few weeks, otherwise you will never ever get out of your mind the miserable past.

You have hatred and even though you might be a good person that hatred re appears on quite often, as such a visit to Cyprus will updated you mind and perhaps you can turn to be a realist from the experience.

Mickleham,

Let me try and approach you from another angle, to find out, what is it thats bothering you::

Mickleham, my old friend. Hey, I'm really sorry to have offended you with some of my remarks 2-3 weeks ago, but to the life of me, I really don't remember being racist towards you. Since I have written a lot of posts in the past 2-3 weeks, you must really help me find the offending remarks made towards you. I know I have called you a "Superior Idiot" and casted you to play the leading role in "PSYCHO", but these are hardly racist remarks, so, be a good chap and give me some specifics.

Jolly good my good man.!!

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

I've just read your post on your childhood in Cyprus, i am sure there are very many similar stories from Greek and Turkish Cypriots, Its an extremely moving story and i congratulate you on not becoming bitter as many seem to have done.

i know from a first hand account of one Turkish Cypriot who was hidden by a Greek Cypriot. the Turkish Cypriot managed to escape to one of the enclaves, he later heard that a neighbor of the Greek Cypriot who helped him had informed the Militia and the Militia went to his house marched him up a road hit him on the head with a rifle butt then ran him over with a car till he died. Two women from the village witnessed it from where they were hiding in an orchard. His only crime was helping a friend he had known since childhood.


..

Bakala,

Thanks for reading it. It is just another view from a 8 year old kid really. It was a crazy time for everyone. I can only imagine, it must have been the same for the GC's, who had to flee during the 1974 invasion, so there was no escape of misery to any Cypriots really. Some faced it 1963-64, and others in 1974. But if my and Miltiades's generation can accept the wrong doings of our people and want to move forward establishing a "new Cyprus" for all citizens, why can't the rest. I'm still grateful to the Greek soldiers that captured us, and took us to safety, when any one of them could have murdered all of us in that one room. I like to believe that they were the "true Cypriots", just like the Greek family helped the Turkish Cypriot, but ended up dead, in doing so.

[Kifeas]

Kikapu

I've just read your post on your childhood in Cyprus, i am sure there are very many similar stories from Greek and Turkish Cypriots, Its an extremely moving story and i congratulate you on not becoming bitter as many seem to have done.

i know from a first hand account of one Turkish Cypriot who was hidden by a Greek Cypriot. the Turkish Cypriot managed to escape to one of the enclaves, he later heard that a neighbor of the Greek Cypriot who helped him had informed the Militia and the Militia went to his house marched him up a road hit him on the head with a rifle butt then ran him over with a car till he died. Two women from the village witnessed it from where they were hiding in an orchard. His only crime was helping a friend he had known since childhood.


..

Bakala,

Thanks for reading it. It is just another view from a 8 year old kid really. It was a crazy time for everyone. I can only imagine, it must have been the same for the GC's, who had to flee during the 1974 invasion, so there was no escape of misery to any Cypriots really. Some faced it 1963-64, and others in 1974. But if my and Miltiades's generation can accept the wrong doings of our people and want to move forward establishing a "new Cyprus" for all citizens, why can't the rest. I'm still grateful to the Greek soldiers that captured us, and took us to safety, when any one of them could have murdered all of us in that one room. I like to believe that they were the "true Cypriots", just like the Greek family helped the Turkish Cypriot, but ended up dead, in doing so.

Kikapu, there is no need to be grateful to anyone, simply because those that captured you did what it was their obligation to have done so. After all, you did nothing to have to be in the need to be driven to safety, neither to be their captive. Had they harmed you they would have been criminals and a disgrace of their own people, but the fact that they did not, doesn’t make them into heroes.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, there is no need to be grateful to anyone, simply because those that captured you did what it was their obligation to have done so. After all, you did nothing to have to be in the need to be driven to safety, neither to be their captive. Had they harmed you they would have been criminals and a disgrace of their own people, but the fact that they did not, doesn’t make them into heroes.

But I'm grateful Kifeas, because I got to live, where as, hundreds disappeared, never to be seen alive again. I'm sure they were innocent also, but that was not enough for them to be saved. It all depended as to who's hands you were in. There were the criminals that were "happy" to commit crimes by killing their own citizens and then there those of my countrymen who chose to do the right thing, despite the initial problems between the communities that caused deaths on both sides. Lets not forget the mother and her children being gunned down in the bath tub, as they were hiding from Greek"forces". I'm sure there were revenge killings on both sides in the early days in 1963. Guilt or innocence of the Cypriots was not the determining factor as to who lived and who died, rather as to who were their captors.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Unfortunately the colonialists didn't allow that to happen and instead of giving Cypriots their freedom they continued to fight against us and in the end they didn't even let us decide the destiny of our island in a democratic way but instead they forced on us what they wanted.

and what would that decision have been Piratis? Enosis? all your arguements arrive at the same conclusion the majority being the GCs rule means it automatically gives you the right to do what you GCs want and allows us TCs no say in our future for example we never wanted to be part of Greece, you did, having you way would mean you would have forced this upon us which of course we had to stop and did, thank god and then Turkey.