Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

No, RoC has 1/3rd of its land occupied. Thats not its original form. There is obviously an anomaly, and this anomaly is due to the Turkish occupation. If you don't want anomalies, and you want the RoC in its original form then you have to end the occupation.

And of course you have to abandon the deseased idea that "TCs are a minority; majority rule, minority obbey." Otherwise no end for the occupation, no solution to the Cyprus problem... Although I'm not defending the occupation, that's how it seems...


If I have been in power in North; as a first step for a settlement, I would find a formula to solve the land ownership and properties issues first. Several times I explained how would those issues be solved, with the details...

[insan]

Erol, Insan,

we are in a win-lose situation here. The more secure you make TCs (and Turkey) by allowing a continued Turkish presence in Cyprus, the less secure you make GCs. And, ofcourse, the opposite also applies ...

I clearly just asked political equality on legislative and judicial bodies as an assurance for TCs to get their %18 share by all means. This means TCs win %18 and GCs win %82. Who is the loser here. You afraid of being blocked by TCs in 50/50 power sharing situation; on the other hand you are trying to convince us that TCs won't be blocked in an 18/82 or 33/67 power sharing situation.

We can sit here and argue in favour of our respective positions from here unto eternity, but what can we actually do to break this deadlock?

What more can I say here? I believe that I've put forward all of my constructive and rational arguments and views here on this board. And we are not the ones who will negotiate and sign the agreements. As time goes by we'll se what will happen and witness whose thoughts were more appropriate or not...[/quote]

[erolz]

The way I see it the differences between GCs and TCs are 1.Language, 2.Culture, 3.Religion.

With respect Piratis you are not answering my question. I'll try again.

Should TC have a right to block the kind of legislation I gave as an example (limits on non EU investment) or not?

If they should how would you 'word' such in your list of 'exceptional conditions'?

[metecyp]

No, RoC has 1/3rd of its land occupied. Thats not its original form. There is obviously an anomaly, and this anomaly is due to the Turkish occupation. If you don't want anomalies, and you want the RoC in its original form then you have to end the occupation

Piratis, stop twisting the arguments. Do I need to remind you that 1/3 of the the RoC was not occupied between 1963-74 and it was still not functioning as it was supposed to be? And there was no desire or move from the GC side to make it function as it was supposed to.

Whenever you can't answer something, you always point out the occupation. Yes, occupation is a problem but it's not the only problem nor is it the sole reason for all our problems.

[insan]

Whenever you can't answer something, you always point out the occupation. Yes, occupation is a problem but it's not the only problem nor is it the sole reason for all our problems.

Well said metecyp... I can't remember how many times this and similar emphasises have been made to Piratis but he kept singing us the only song he knows... A filter of logic is what piratis needs I think ...

[Alexandros Lordos]

Insan,

I have no problem with political equality. When I said we are in a win-lose situation, I was referring to the presence of the Turkish army and intervention rights.

[Piratis]

Do I need to remind you that 1/3 of the the RoC was not occupied between 1963-74 and it was still not functioning as it was supposed to be?

Turkish Cypriots are equally responsible for 63-74. The did everything possible so that RoC would not function properly and they would achieve their aim. The same way that GCs didn't believe in RoC, the same way TCs didn't believe in it either. Thats a fact.

Today though, Turkey and TCs are the only ones responsible for the anomaly, and occupation is THE Cyprus problem.

If you are going to blame us forever for things that happened in the past and have no connection with our today's policies, then we might as well start talking about the Ottomans!

[Piratis]

Should TC have a right to block the kind of legislation I gave as an example (limits on non EU investment) or not?

No. I disagree with "blocking" in this case. The decisions should be taken for the benefit of Cypriots as a whole. If a decision that will benefit Cypriots as a whole will have a negative effect on a group of the population then the solution is not this group to block the decision and harm the interests of the majority. The solution is to arrange it in such a way that this group will have the least negative consequences possible. (e.g. by being compensated)

This is a general principle, and not one that applies to TCs only. E.g. we can say that our entry to the EU affected negatively certain parts of the population, e.g. the farmers. The solution is not to allow the farmers to block a decision that will benefit the country as a whole, but to help the farmers as much as possible to deal with any negative consequences.

Another example: If an acceptable for the great majority solution is found, the solution is not to allow the minority that is against this solution to block it, but to try to minimize the negative effects that forced this minority to vote against the solution. (e.g. We could minimize the harm caused to a refugee that will not return to his home by providing him with a good compensation quickly).

[insan]

Today though, Turkey and TCs are the only ones responsible for the anomaly, and occupation is THE Cyprus problem.

Insofar as I know you still insist on the core point of the problem; "Majority rules, minority obbeys and contends with what has been granted them as a compromise by the majority." This still doesn't give a positive stimulation to Turkish side... and I know that, the ruling and leading elites of Hellen side will never consider TCs as one of the politically equal partner of the united Cyprus even some day they have obliged to accept to a force settlement. Thus; there's only one way out for us: TWO SEPERATE STATES.

[erolz]

If you are going to blame us forever for things that happened in the past and have no connection with our today's policies, then we might as well start talking about the Ottomans!

Have no connection with your policies today? Come on Piratis! The issues are the same (what the status of the two communites in Cyprus should be etc). The political players are the same (Papadopolus, Denktash etc etc). Is there a single person alive today that was alive under ottoman rule?