Cyprus-Forum.com

[souroul]

ok i need to clear up something that doesnt really make sense from your posts. maybe i havent read them all but whatever, here goes

do you think that the GC's are entitled to the land that was taken from them 32 years ago and why?

[Viewpoint]

I do think the GCs should get their land back within the framework of a comprehensive solution. If the land has been developed then the GC should be offered immediate market value compensation. TCs who have exchanged land should lose whats in the south which can be offered to GCs as compensation and if their is a difference one should pay the other. Land given to settlers by the TRNC which has been used should be paid for by Turkey.

Anything else youd like to know?

[andri_cy]

Sounds resonable. I think a demand for everyone to get their land back is to say the least unrealistic.

[Viewpoint]

Sounds resonable. I think a demand for everyone to get their land back is to say the least unrealistic.

Unfortunately thats what the GC propaganda machine has been pumping into everyones heads for 32 years, thats why GCs will have to change their attitude drastically realizing that not everyone will have the option to get back their land.

[Kifeas]

VP, this approach that you suggest, even though in the eyes of a third non-interested party may sound reasonable and logical, cannot be accepted by us. The reason is simple! This approach, if it is acknowledged by us, will morally "allow" you to gradually develop all our proprieties in the north -or at least all those properties in prominent areas and those with the highest potential; on the assumption that in the end their owners will duly compensated. It sounds like an indirect forced sale in the eyes of the GCs in general, and is no different than the global exchange of properties and compensations that Denktash has been preaching for years.

We do not accept such a broad and general arrangement. Money, may be generated any time, and is also perishable. Land is a scarce resource. Ownership and possession of land as a property, is much more preferred by any person or a people, than mere possession of cash. One may have a lot of cash in his possession, but there will be no land available to buy, whereas there may not be cash available, but one can borrow from a bank and use it to buy land, should there is land available to buy. One may generate, earn or produce cash, but land cannot be generated or produced. This is basic macroeconomics.

The potential for the return of as many GCs as possible back into their historical areas is an essential criterion for any solution to have any meaning for us. If there is no potential to return and resettle, even in the long run, then there is no reason or meaning for us to agree to share with you the running of the country, as it will be even worst than accepting partition. The more land you develop on the assumption that there will be compensations, the more GCs are estranged from their villages and areas in the north, and the less the potential for a return.

I know this is your national policy, i.e. to completely estrange the GCs from the north and keep it as a purely Turkified zone, this is why you continue to senselessly develop our properties, hoping that this will allow you in the end to keep them and permanetly hold the GCs back form returning, and thus consolidate in this way the ethnic cleansing fait accomplices of the Turkish invasion. You have to realise that this is a very hostile behaviour on your part that currently unfolds in front of our eyes, and not only will not let us one day to a peaceful solution, but in fact it may end up leading to non-peaceful choices.

[Viewpoint]

You are becoming very emotional again (due to personal reasons like the loss of millions of Cyprus Pounds) Kifeas and not really thinking methodically, I wish I could wave a magic wand for you to get your land back but some people will have to settle for compensation or exchange of TC land in the south. What do you suggest we do? knock down all the devleopements? so the GCs can come back, or is the we want to return to our ancestral homes ideology just a way of Greekifying the north? it can be taken either way.

The development process is a natural path which was evident in the south late 70s and 80s, this rapid expansion should fire up your desire for a solution sooner rather than later why arent you out on the streets putting pressure on your docile leaders to negotiate or expose the side holding up the process.

What do you suggest we do with regards to returning property?

[Kifeas]

The Cyprus problem is not only a problem of properties and compensations. The Cyprus problem -at least from a GC perspective, is also (primarily) a problem of ethnic cleansing, usurping and violating the historical and cultural rights of a people to continue existing in their ancestral lands, lands in which they already existed for thousands of years before, and in which they have left all their cultural landmarks and their very cultural and historical identity and consciousness. For us this factor is far more important than compensations.

I personally do not care so much as an individual, whether I will get my own personal properties back, or compensation instead, as much as I care about the prospects that we the GCs will have in general, to return back to the north one day. I can to an extent digest the fact that most of my properties were already developed, but I cannot digest the fact that you continue doing so, with the clear objective of estranging as many GCs as possible from returning back to them one day, and thus also to estrange them from returning as a people in the north part of their historical country.

[Kifeas]

What do you suggest we do? knock down all the devleopements? so the GCs can come back, or is the we want to return to our ancestral homes ideology just a way of Greekifying the north? it can be taken either way.

First of all, and since you put it in this way so that you will "reverse" the argument, the north has been "Greekified" (Hellenised) for 3,500 thousand years, and you have absolutely no right to change its character by ethnically cleansing its indigenous population so that you Turkify it. However, we do not claim the right to re-Hellenise the north, since anyway the majority of the people there -even after a solution- will be from the Turkish Cypriot community. What we insist claiming is the right to also exist there as a cultural entity, in a multicultural environment. After all, the area itself is virtually interspersed with our cultural and historical remnants, and we claim the divine right to exist next to them since they are an integral part of our identity.

What do I suggest you do?

First of all you should consciously give up the unethical objective to consolidate the fait accomplices of the Turkish invasion that relate to our ethnic cleansing from the north. Second, to realise that you have already exhausted your fair share of private property development, as a community of the 18% of Cypriots, and to seek other ways for economical development. We have already made some very sound proposals towards this direction, but you seem not to be interested, simply because you want to score political goals against us with direct trade as you envision it. And lastly, your leadership to come to its senses and decide to negotiate with us a comprehensive solution on the basis of legitimate objectives, concerns and claims, and not on the basis of illegitimate ones that it keeps doing for 32 years now.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas do you really in your heart believe that people are developing properties for sole purpose of wiping out the GC element in the north. This is not the case and totally wrong. The reason this is being done is purely economical we as "Cypriots" share the same trait that we hate to sell land, we have a saying alinmis kalinmis = whats bought stays bought. People in the north just want a good standard of living and many have sold land which they have held onto for many years in the hope of a solution for personal reasons, health education etc. They do not see any light at the end of the tunnel and noway of making money due to the restrctions on the north so they chose the easy way of selling land to generate income that will meet their family needs. Of course there are al oad of greedy bastards about who do this on large scale but on average the TC who have exchanged land sold after the referendum when they felt there was no hope for a solution and a sudden interest in property. So you mentlaity that we are selling to ensure GC cannot return is totally incorrect. I am suprised that this has not fuelled GC refugees to demand a solution immediate, werent you promised this by your leaders during the referendum?

[Viewpoint]

What do you suggest we do? knock down all the devleopements? so the GCs can come back, or is the we want to return to our ancestral homes ideology just a way of Greekifying the north? it can be taken either way.

First of all, and since you put it in this way so that you will "reverse" the argument, the north has been "Greekified" (Hellenised) for 3,500 thousand years, and you have absolutely no right to change its character, by ethnically cleansing its indigenous population so that you Turkify it. However, we do not claim to the right to re-Hellenise the north, since anyway the majority of the people there -even after a solution, will be from the Turkish Cypriot community. What we insist claiming is the right to also exist there as a cultural entity, in a multicultural environment. After all, the area itself is virtually interspersed with our cultural and historical remnants, and we claim the divine right to exist next to them since they are an integral part of our identity.

Kifeas you state you have TC friends, then I am sure you have realized that we do not have a problem with GCs coming to live in the north amongst their heritage which to certain degree is entwined with ours. This is an accepted and natural process as we have always maintained that land that can be returned to GC should be. The problem for us is polictical respresentation and having our own area where we will always be the majority and in control of our own destiny but of course taking into account the good of the island as a whole. We want to be seen as equals where we will not be dominated by a purely GC federal government, the experience of which has left a very bitter taste in our mouths.