Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Kifeas do you really in your heart believe that people are developing properties for sole purpose of wiping out the GC element in the north. This is not the case and totally wrong. The reason this is being done is purely economical we as "Cypriots" share the same trait that we hate to sell land, we have a saying alinmis kalinmis = whats bought stays bought. People in the north just want a good standard of living and many have sold land which they have held onto for many years in the hope of a solution for personal reasons, health education etc. They do not see any light at the end of the tunnel and noway of making money due to the restrctions on the north so they chose the easy way of selling land to generate income that will meet their family needs. Of course there are al oad of greedy bastards about who do this on large scale but on average the TC who have exchanged land sold after the referendum when they felt there was no hope for a solution and a sudden interest in property. So you mentlaity that we are selling to ensure GC cannot return is totally incorrect. I am suprised that this has not fuelled GC refugees to demand a solution immediate, werent you promised this by your leaders during the referendum?

VP, do you know how many projects are currently underway in the north, behind of which is the Turkish Foreign Ministry, or Turkish businessmen promptly finance by Turkish banks to do so. What on earth does the Turkish foreign ministry, the Turkish government, or companies owned by the Turkish Army have to do with large scale private sector investments into a foreign country and into GC properties? Isn’t this part of a broader objective towards the direction I have previously discriped?

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

First of all you should consciously give up the unethical objective to consolidate the fait accomplices of the Turkish invasion that relate to our ethnic cleansing from the north. Second, to realise that you have already exhausted your fair share of private property development, as a community of the 18% of Cypriots, and to seek other ways for economical development. We have already made some very sound proposals towards this direction, but you seem not to be interested, simply because you want to score political goals against us with direct trade as you envision it. And lastly, your leadership to come to its senses and decide to negotiate with us a comprehensive solution on the basis of legitimate objectives, concerns and claims, and not on the basis of illegitimate ones that it keeps doing for 32 years now.

I find this very interesting, as I stated above we on the whole have no problem with GC returning this will happen when a property return has been agreed so this for us is not a big issue as you seem to feel it is. Find otherways to develop economically you know full well that economies develop firstly according to natural resources, production and services, we are limited in 2 of the main areas therefore its a process which you yourself contribute (although do not wish to acknowledge this fact) to by insisting on these embargos which you feel will keep us wanting a solution.
These sound proposals should be put forward to the World, EU and UN, if they are so sound I am sure they to will apply pressure to ensure they are adopted.
Your last suggestion well Kifeas both sides are very much at fault here and blaming one is not right imo, our last attempt at negoating through international bodies namely the UN and EU ended up with the Annan plan which we all know was a conspiracy against the GCs, totally illegal as per all the countries that backed it.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas do you really in your heart believe that people are developing properties for sole purpose of wiping out the GC element in the north. This is not the case and totally wrong. The reason this is being done is purely economical we as "Cypriots" share the same trait that we hate to sell land, we have a saying alinmis kalinmis = whats bought stays bought. People in the north just want a good standard of living and many have sold land which they have held onto for many years in the hope of a solution for personal reasons, health education etc. They do not see any light at the end of the tunnel and noway of making money due to the restrctions on the north so they chose the easy way of selling land to generate income that will meet their family needs. Of course there are al oad of greedy bastards about who do this on large scale but on average the TC who have exchanged land sold after the referendum when they felt there was no hope for a solution and a sudden interest in property. So you mentlaity that we are selling to ensure GC cannot return is totally incorrect. I am suprised that this has not fuelled GC refugees to demand a solution immediate, werent you promised this by your leaders during the referendum?

VP, do you know how many projects are currently underway in the north, behind of which is the Turkish Foreign Ministry, or Turkish businessmen promptly finance by Turkish banks to do so. What on earth does the Turkish foreign ministry, the Turkish government, or companies owned by the Turkish Army have to do with large scale private sector investments into a foreign country and into GC properties? Isn’t this part of a broader objective towards the direction I have previously discriped?

Could you kindly give me your independent source from which you base your arguements? so that I to may be enlightened.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas you state you have TC friends, then I am sure you have realized that we do not have a problem with GCs coming to live in the north amongst their heritage which to certain degree is entwined with ours. This is an accepted and natural process as we have always maintained that land that can be returned to GC should be.

I did not say that this is an objective of the individual ordinary TCs (at least the majority of them,) or that the majority of them do favor such a policy, or they know about its existence in the first place. This is an objective well planed in much higher halls among the kemalist (nationalist) deep-state, both in Turkey and in Cyprus, and it also unfortunately includes part of your leadership. The majority of ordinary TCs are not even aware of its existence. Why do you think they insisted in those long term exhausting timetables and quotas of GC return in the north, in the Annan plan.

The problem for us is polictical respresentation and having our own area where we will always be the majority and in control of our own destiny but of course taking into account the good of the island as a whole. We want to be seen as equals where we will not be dominated by a purely GC federal government, the experience of which has left a very bitter taste in our mouths.

Adequate political representation and effective participation in the decision making at a federal government level is already guaranteed from our part, from the moment we accepted to to agree a solution on the basis of a BBF and political equality (based to the UN definition.) This issue is closed, since you already know it has been accepted by us in principle. The problem lies with you and the degree to which you want this political representation to be observed, and you want to do this for purely and merely symbolic and not essential reasons, completely disregarding the demographic aspect. Furthermore, the biggest problem, that lies with you again, is your understanding of the bi-zonal aspect of the solution. You want to convert the bi-zonal aspect of the solution into a purely bi-communal one, so that you will be able to do whatever you wish with the north state, ignoring the fact that it will not be essentially an exclusively TC zone, but it will be a zone (a state) in which the GCs should have a stake there as well, and thus they should also have a saying in the affairs that will be affecting them on a regional (local) level. You want to convert the two federal zones into two mono ethnic and two mono-cultural zones -at least in an institutionalized manner, in full disrespect of the fact that the north will also be part of the GC's homeland, as it has been for thousands of years.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

I did not say that this is an objective of the individual ordinary TCs (at least the majority of them,) or that the majority of them do favor such a policy, or they know about its existence in the first place. This is an objective well planed in much higher halls among the kemalist (nationalist) deep-state, both in Turkey and in Cyprus, and it also unfortunately includes part of your leadership. The majority of ordinary TCs are not even aware of its existence. Why do you think they insisted in those long term exhausting timetables and quotas of GC return in the north, in the Annan plan.

So the delaying tactics of the south is playing right into the hands of the much higher halls among the kemalist (nationalist) deep-state, both in Turkey and in Cyprus. I really think you have been watching to many spy movies and reading conspiracy theory novels, the quicker the GC leaders get down to exposing us as the side stalling negotiations the better for you, if indeed that is the case.

Adequate political representation and effective participation in the decision making at a federal government level is already guaranteed from our part, from the moment we accepted to to agree a solution on the basis of a BBF and political equality (based to the UN definition.) This issue is closed, since you already know it has been accepted by us in principle. The problem lies with you and the degree to which you want this political representation to be observed, and you want to do this for purely and merely symbolic and not essential reasons, completely disregarding the demographic aspect. Furthermore, the biggest problem, that lies with you again, is your understanding of the bi-zonal aspect of the solution. You want to convert the bi-zonal aspect of the solution into a purely bi-communal one, so that you will be able to do whatever you wish with the north state, ignoring the fact that it will not be essentially an exclusively TC zone, but it will be a zone (a state) in which the GCs should have a stake there as well, and thus they should also have a saying in the affairs that will be affecting them on a regional (local) level. You want to convert the two federal zones into two mono ethnic and two mono-cultural zones -at least in an institutionalized manner, in full disrespect of the fact that the north will also be part of the GC's homeland, as it has been for thousands of years.

This we have argued before and have even agreed a balance which yourself put forward. How can we convert the two federal zones into two mono ethnic and two mono-cultural zones -at least in an institutionalized manner, in full disrespect of the fact that the north will also be part of the GC's homeland, as it has been for thousands of years, when we accept that Gcs will return to live in the north and there will be a political balance?

[andreasv]

Why do people have the need to be one or the other? Can we not be one Cyprus people united.... why have more segragation? I feel that we need to develop a Cyriot identity and let Greece and Turkey get on with their peoples and their politics.... those who wish to identify Greek or Turkish could perhaps attempt to immigrate to either country

[andreasv]

I was only 6 when Turkey invaded and a year prior to that I was living in Xero and I remember being cuddled by a Turkish Speaking Cypriot neighbour I want to go back to that.

[andri_cy]

Thats how a lot of us remember it andreas.
Kifeas, how is it unreasonable in the whole what Vp is suggesting? A lot of people that own land in the north but not even want to go back and might be interested in taking compensation if it is fair market value. We should not dismiss it. Do you have any proof that the majority want to go back ?

[StuartN]

Kifeas wrote;

and we claim the divine right

which divinity are you refering to exactly - and in what context?

[Kifeas]

Kifeas wrote;

and we claim the divine right

which divinity are you refering to exactly - and in what context?

Stuard, shall I assume that out of all I have written all along, this is the only thing you didn’t like or did not understand? Or is it just the only thing worth talking about? Nevertheless, if you find it more reasonable or appropriate, you may just assume the disputed term inside inverted commas …and I only hope it will make you happier this way.