Cyprus-Forum.com

[sadik]

Deep down, we’re all the same…
By Leo Leonidou

GREEK and Turkish Cypriots display a remarkable similarity in their values, attitudes and beliefs.
That was the preliminary conclusion of The World Values Survey (WVS) – Cyprus, part of a worldwide investigation of socio-cultural and political change.
It is conducted by a network of social scientists at leading universities around the world. The Fifth Wave of the WVS currently under way involves 99 countries and territories and is the world’s most comprehensive look at people’s values and beliefs.
WVS Cyprus is the first such study on the island. A comprehensive survey of 600 Greek Cypriots and 500 Turkish Cypriots covering the entire spectrum of human life in face-to-face interviews with 259 questions pertaining to people’s preferences was conducted.

Repeated every five years, the WVS explores the hypothesis that mass belief systems are changing in ways that have important economic, political and social consequences.

Presenting the findings for Cyprus, Principal Investigator, Professor Birol Yesilada of Portland State University, outlined some of the findings.
“The rule of God is more important to Greek than Turkish Cypriots, while both communities are both very proud of their identity and own nations,” he explained. “Greek Cypriots identify far more with the European Union while Turkish Cypriots have more faith in the military.”

He said both communities show support for democracy and equality of the sexes, while cheating on taxes and accepting bribes are not acceptable to either as justifiable behaviour.

When asked who they did not want as a neighbour, race and religion were, perhaps surprisingly, not at the top of the responses, with most people citing drug and alcohol users.

“Cypriots have had to deal with issues involving identity, culture and propaganda over the years and we hope this study will provide us with a significant insight into our understanding of them,” said Yesilada. “It is our hope that policymakers take a hard look at the study and address policies aimed at reuniting Cyprus with some understanding of Greek and Turkish Cypriots rather than operating in preordained assumptions.”

The data will be deposited at the University of Michigan for research purposes and will be made available to the general public in two years.
A press release noted that, “in post-industrial societies, the surveys indicate that people seem to have significantly different value systems than those in industrialising or pre-industrial societies. The expansion of a post-industrial value system also provides an opportunity to test theories of democratic peace in cross-regional settings.”

Cyprus is an important contribution to the WVS because it is a divided island with multi-ethnic and multi-religious communities that have experienced the horror of civil war. Given its long history of inter-communal conflict, Cyprus presents the opportunity to test theoretically important hypotheses surrounding the clash of civilisations, post-industrial values versus ethnic and religious nationalism, the impact of the protracted conflict of war on people’s lives, the colonial/post-colonial/civil war environment’s effect on values and beliefs and the effect of external involvement by outside powers on the people.

“As such, Cyprus represents a rare case study that will enrich the WVS collection for valuable comparative research and insight into the Cypriots’ belief systems and values that should be of great value to scholars and policy-makers,” the press release noted.
The usefulness of the WVS surveys has grown as they have come to provide more complete coverage of the world’s societies.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2006

So, the research says we are all the same...

We've been seeing all this research for years that say TCs and GCs are very similar both culturally and genetically, but we see no development in the relations of the two communities. Do these similarities not matter at all? And why do we think we are so different when we actually are so similar? Why do GCs see themselves as part of the same nation with Greeks from the Black Sea coasts and the TCs with Turks from the Black Sea coasts, even though then have more in common among themselves than with us?

[Kifeas]

Deep down, we’re all the same…
By Leo Leonidou

GREEK and Turkish Cypriots display a remarkable similarity in their values, attitudes and beliefs.
That was the preliminary conclusion of The World Values Survey (WVS) – Cyprus, part of a worldwide investigation of socio-cultural and political change.
It is conducted by a network of social scientists at leading universities around the world. The Fifth Wave of the WVS currently under way involves 99 countries and territories and is the world’s most comprehensive look at people’s values and beliefs.
WVS Cyprus is the first such study on the island. A comprehensive survey of 600 Greek Cypriots and 500 Turkish Cypriots covering the entire spectrum of human life in face-to-face interviews with 259 questions pertaining to people’s preferences was conducted.

Repeated every five years, the WVS explores the hypothesis that mass belief systems are changing in ways that have important economic, political and social consequences.

Presenting the findings for Cyprus, Principal Investigator, Professor Birol Yesilada of Portland State University, outlined some of the findings.
“The rule of God is more important to Greek than Turkish Cypriots, while both communities are both very proud of their identity and own nations,” he explained. “Greek Cypriots identify far more with the European Union while Turkish Cypriots have more faith in the military.”

He said both communities show support for democracy and equality of the sexes, while cheating on taxes and accepting bribes are not acceptable to either as justifiable behaviour.

When asked who they did not want as a neighbour, race and religion were, perhaps surprisingly, not at the top of the responses, with most people citing drug and alcohol users.

“Cypriots have had to deal with issues involving identity, culture and propaganda over the years and we hope this study will provide us with a significant insight into our understanding of them,” said Yesilada. “It is our hope that policymakers take a hard look at the study and address policies aimed at reuniting Cyprus with some understanding of Greek and Turkish Cypriots rather than operating in preordained assumptions.”

The data will be deposited at the University of Michigan for research purposes and will be made available to the general public in two years.
A press release noted that, “in post-industrial societies, the surveys indicate that people seem to have significantly different value systems than those in industrialising or pre-industrial societies. The expansion of a post-industrial value system also provides an opportunity to test theories of democratic peace in cross-regional settings.”

Cyprus is an important contribution to the WVS because it is a divided island with multi-ethnic and multi-religious communities that have experienced the horror of civil war. Given its long history of inter-communal conflict, Cyprus presents the opportunity to test theoretically important hypotheses surrounding the clash of civilisations, post-industrial values versus ethnic and religious nationalism, the impact of the protracted conflict of war on people’s lives, the colonial/post-colonial/civil war environment’s effect on values and beliefs and the effect of external involvement by outside powers on the people.

“As such, Cyprus represents a rare case study that will enrich the WVS collection for valuable comparative research and insight into the Cypriots’ belief systems and values that should be of great value to scholars and policy-makers,” the press release noted.
The usefulness of the WVS surveys has grown as they have come to provide more complete coverage of the world’s societies.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2006

So, the research says we are all the same...

We've been seeing all this research for years that say TCs and GCs are very similar both culturally and genetically, but we see no development in the relations of the two communities. Do these similarities not matter at all? And why do we think we are so different when we actually are so similar? Why do GCs see themselves as part of the same nation with Greeks from the Black Sea coasts and the TCs with Turks from the Black Sea coasts, even though then have more in common among themselves than with us?

Sadik, it is not the GCs that claim that in Cyprus there are no two communities of the same people but only two separate people, and that they must not share the island as Cypriots, but instead that they must live separately and side by side in two different "ethnically" purified regions (states) as "good" neighbors! These are not the things been claimed an promoted by the GCs -contrary to the above research that verifies we are more similar than different, but instead the things claimed and promoted by the various TC leaderships and the Kemalist propaganda "thick tanks" of Turkey. All the most important GC political movements and parties in fact claim that we must live and share the same country as one people, as Cypriots, with respect and protection of each community's distinct cultural identity elements.

It is not the official GC thesis and propaganda that promotes separateness as an objective, but instead the Turkish one!

[Viewpoint]

And this from a community which has 80% of the islands population in advantage and heating up nice assimilation plans for the TCs community, of course they will promote an ideology that will see the end of our community and the hellenistic dream realized.
the thought should send shivers down every TCs spine frightening..

[Kifeas]

And this from a community which has 80% of the islands population in advantage and heating up nice assimilation plans for the TCs community, of course they will promote an ideology that will see the end of our community and the hellenistic dream realized.
the thought should send shivers down every TCs spine frightening..

Nice assimilation plans?

400 years that you have been living with us in Cyprus, you never lost your distinctive language and your culture, to the extent you have lost it during the last 32 years that you live "alone" in the north. Never during your history in Cyprus, the indigenous TC population had decreased to such an extent, that it has decreased during the last 32 years. The GCs have increased from 495,000 in 1974 to nearly 675,000 in 2006, but you have decreased from 110,000 in 1974 down to perhaps less than 100,000 in 2006. In 1960 you was the 18.4% of the Cypriot population, in 1974 you was the 18.2% of the population (110 /605 thousands,) and 32 years after that, in 2006, you have become only the 13% of the indigenous Cypriot population.

And you dare speak of us wanting to assimilate you!

[Viewpoint]

Did you live in the Cyprus pre 1974 where the GC language was predominant and daily business was conducted in Greek. The TCs had to learn Greek to interact with GCs it was very rarely the other way around. It was Makarios and his henchmen that encouraged TC to go start a new life abroad and you have the nerve to quote manipulate figures at me. All was not rosey as you wish to make out it was.

The majority rule logic suits your aims as it provides the best opportunity for the gradual assimilation of TCs into the GC numerical majority, a plan that your black clocked relgious leader instigated and would have suceeded if it were not for greedy Greeks and GCs and Turkey stepping in to save our hides.

[Kifeas]

Did you live in the Cyprus pre 1974 where the GC language was predominant and daily business was conducted in Greek. The TCs had to learn Greek to interact with GCs it was very rarely the other way around. It was Makarios and his henchmen that encouraged TC to go start a new life abroad and you have the nerve to quote manipulate figures at me. All was not rosey as you wish to make out it was.

The majority rule logic suits your aims as it provides the best opportunity for the gradual assimilation of TCs into the GC numerical majority, a plan that your black clocked relgious leader instigated and would have suceeded if it were not for greedy Greeks and GCs and Turkey stepping in to save our hides.

VP, for this purpose and alleviate your concerns we have agreed in our expense to a solution that will allow you to be the majority in one of the two states so that you do not face the above fear. However, not only you did not appreciate the compromise we have made in 1975 for bi-zonal federal solution, but you said the thank you to us by demanding more and more and a solution of two completely separate and ethically purifies states, in which you will also have the “right” and the facility impose on us illegitimate restrictions on our return to our ancestral lands and restrictions on exercising our cultural rights, like your motherland does to the Kurds -things we have never attempted to do to you as a minority, as if the north has been your own ancestral homeland alone and only yours. One day you will regret for this arrogance and hubris that you are exhibiting.

[Alexis]

Hi guys,

I think we have missed the point of sadik's post. I believe what sadik is saying is that since we are so similar why is it we cannot seem to agree on anything? Both of you have effectively blamed the other side's intransigence and I can see valid points from both arguments. I believe that deep down the Cyprus problem is about mutual trust which we both lack, but it is also about breaching that divide which can only be done if both sides participate. It is not enough to simply state that other side is the one being instransigent or that it is the other side that has to convince you that they have no bad intentions, both sides need to actively show that they are willing to share the island with the other.

[Viewpoint]

We have tried what have the GCs done?

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

VP, for this purpose and alleviate your concerns we have agreed in our expense to a solution that will allow you to be the majority in one of the two states so that you do not face the above fear. However, not only you did not appreciate the compromise we have made in 1975 for bi-zonal federal solution, but you said the thank you to us by demanding more and more and a solution of two completely separate and ethically purifies states, in which you will also have the “right” and the facility impose on us illegitimate restrictions on our return to our ancestral lands and restrictions on exercising our cultural rights, like your motherland does to the Kurds -things we have never attempted to do to you as a minority, as if the north has been your own ancestral homeland alone and only yours. One day you will regret for this arrogance and hubris that you are exhibiting.

What do you expect us to do Kifeas, like yourselves we argue our corner making demands that will resolve our communites fears and concerns are we to blame if the UN and EU accept and include these in the only solution we have had put before us. You GCs seem to blame us for your NO, thats how twisted and manipulative GCs can be and why I am having great difficulty in trusting anything they say.

The BBF is a solution acceptable to the TCs where we are guranteed to remain the majority in the north with an agreed amount of self rule. Thank you.


We TCs are very proud people but on the whole very easy to get along with as long as you win their trust, the only problem is that GCs have this knack of rubbing them up the wrong way which brings out the worst in them, we also view you guys as arrogant and hubris, other traits we have in common.

[souroul]

we're not the same but we're not that far apart either