Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Now, back on track, I notice you never responded to my point about there being some 10% of land that has been stolen and will hopefully be returned if you can ever stop hating and fighting...

The problem is not how much GC owned land has been sold to foreigners. The problem is that ALL 100% of GC properties in the occupied are stolen, distributed at will to TCs and settlers, and ALL of them are potentially available for sale, without the consent of the real owner.

The 10% (your personal estimate??) already sold illegally represents the VERY BEST of lands and the most expensive ones of those belonging to GCs. This is a sensitive issue for us, and we cannot tolerate provocations of the kind you wrote.

[G.Man]

Your only motive it appears is that you justify those that commit crimes against us just because they are your compatriots and friends. I wonder if a foreigner was committing crimes against your own country if you would excuse him in the same way. I guess not.

In this thread I didn't attack anybody. I attack only those criminal scums, and I have every right to do it.

Yes of course, I justified the sale of stolen GC land, Don't be so rediculous, I never said anything of the sort...



I quite clearly said that this land will be dealt with when the whole island is re-united, until then it is only a problem on paper..

Those who buy on stolen GC land will get what they deserve, the day you can stop arguing and sort the problem...

Until then, the legal owners can neither use or sell the land, so it is worthless until the overriding issue is dealt with...

Pyrpolizer...

Yes 10% is my personal estimate, and yes a lot of the land is around Kyrenia, and is very beautiful, but you say that this land is more important than than the large areas of farm land, and village land because it is more valuable? I am sure the farmers who have lost land will agree with you on that right? I am sure they think a pretty view is more important than the livelihoods they have lost?

If "some" land is provocative and intolerable, then there is nothing I can do about that, as it is a lejitimate comment about what has been sold..

ANY sale of the GC land is illegal and wrong, I do not try and justify it, if I did I would be living there on some stolen land instead of paying my hard earned at twice the level to a GC...

The fact is I am able to stand back and look at the bigger picture, and the real issue that needs resolving first... Stolen GC land is a symptom, not the cause of the problem... And until the cause is cured, the symptoms cannot be relieved...

[Alexis]

The fact is I am able to stand back and look at the bigger picture, and the real issue that needs resolving first... Stolen GC land is a symptom, not the cause of the problem... And until the cause is cured, the symptoms cannot be relieved...

Yes, of course we need to look at the bigger picture, but the symptoms can be addressed. As time goes the issue of land and property can only get worse, how much worse depends on the policies of the TRNC.
I would urge the TRNC to do all it can to alleviate the problem and pave the way to unification by changing her laws with regards the sale of GC property. By all means rent this out, use it, even develop it or expropriate some to build communal projects such as roads and hospitals but why make a comprehensive settlement ten times harder to reach by selling land to third parties, non-cypriots who all would agree should not have to be involved in a political settlement on the island. Look at the issue of settlers. This is also very similar, we can't simply send all these guys back to Turkey since some of them have a human right to remain, two wrongs do not make a right. Similarly what are we going to do with foreigners who have invested heavily on GC land? Is it really so simple that these people will be dispossessed? Yet this is a symptom that can be dealt with by passing laws to contain the problem within the country and pave the way to a settlement. Of course the GC side has to act as well especially with regards easing the isolation of the TC community by allowing some form of trade but our obligation is to the TC community, not to the settlers or foreigners.

[zan]

The fact is I am able to stand back and look at the bigger picture, and the real issue that needs resolving first... Stolen GC land is a symptom, not the cause of the problem... And until the cause is cured, the symptoms cannot be relieved...

Yes, of course we need to look at the bigger picture, but the symptoms can be addressed. As time goes the issue of land and property can only get worse, how much worse depends on the policies of the TRNC.
I would urge the TRNC to do all it can to alleviate the problem and pave the way to unification by changing her laws with regards the sale of GC property. By all means rent this out, use it, even develop it or expropriate some to build communal projects such as roads and hospitals but why make a comprehensive settlement ten times harder to reach by selling land to third parties, non-cypriots who all would agree should not have to be involved in a political settlement on the island. Look at the issue of settlers. This is also very similar, we can't simply send all these guys back to Turkey since some of them have a human right to remain, two wrongs do not make a right. Similarly what are we going to do with foreigners who have invested heavily on GC land? Is it really so simple that these people will be dispossessed? Yet this is a symptom that can be dealt with by passing laws to contain the problem within the country and pave the way to a settlement. Of course the GC side has to act as well especially with regards easing the isolation of the TC community by allowing some form of trade but our obligation is to the TC community, not to the settlers or foreigners.

I agree with everything you have posted here as long as people who read it take in the whole post and just a selective part of it. This is of course only in the case of reunification.

[Pyrpolizer]

Yes 10% is my personal estimate, and yes a lot of the land is around Kyrenia, and is very beautiful, but you say that this land is more important than than the large areas of farm land, and village land because it is more valuable? I am sure the farmers who have lost land will agree with you on that right? I am sure they think a pretty view is more important than the livelihoods they have lost?

I only said the land sold already is the most expensive one.Nothing more nothing less. Please don’t jump into conclussions.

If "some" land is provocative and intolerable, then there is nothing I can do about that, as it is a lejitimate comment about what has been sold..

ANY sale of the GC land is illegal and wrong, I do not try and justify it, if I did I would be living there on some stolen land instead of paying my hard earned at twice the level to a GC...

Provocative was the name calling of someone (i.e. Piratis) who said those who buy stolen GC land are accomplices to a crime hence criminals. Yet I am not sure your fight with Piratis was for that, and if it was not, then I withdraw my comments against you immediately and I apologise.
As you said "ANY sale of the GC land is illegal and wrong, I do not try and justify it" and I completely agree with you.

[Viewpoint]

But if tomorrow the TCs decided to stop developing disputed land, wouldnt they be held hostage at the mercy of GCs who will just continue to use the EU and isolation to continue to depress our economical progress to extract as many conessions as possible? This risk is very real and GCs do not do anything to eleviate it. The building right or wrong acts as a catalyst to keep GCs interested in finding a solution not in 20 years time when there is no property left to return but in the shorter term knowing that they can still get most of it back.

[G.Man]

Provocative was the name calling of someone (i.e. Piratis) who said those who buy stolen GC land are accomplices to a crime hence criminals. Yet I am not sure your fight with Piratis was for that, and if it was not, then I withdraw my comments against you immediately and I apologise.
As you said "ANY sale of the GC land is illegal and wrong, I do not try and justify it" and I completely agree with you.

I don't have a fight with Piratis, I merely warned someone who left the forum after his outburst of his rantings..

I dont disagree with Piratis' message, his delivery tho, is abrasive, and obnoxious.. Thats not name calling, just my opinion... and by his own admission he chooses not to moderate other sections so he can reply in the form he does...

I believe there needs to be some form of legislation to prevent EU citizens buying GC owned (they are EU citizens after all) land...

I dont think enough is being done by europe to support its lejitimate landowners, and I still think that many brits who buy land/property in the TRNC buy genuinely thinking that this land will have full legal title...

I know technically, unwittingly commiting a crime still makes you a criminal, but the way it is presented its as if these people are deliberately buying this land to deprive the lejitimate landowners, and I don't believe thats the case... if it were then these estate agents wouldnt be promoting the "TRNC backed land guarantees" as it would not be an issue for someone knowingly "stealing" land...

I also genuinely believe that when the cyprus problem is addressed properly and dealt with, all GC landowners will either see their land back, or be fully compensated.. Maybe thats naive, but I don't think there is anyway forward without this being fairly dealt with...

Anyway, thats my brainfarts as Piratis calls them, you judge them as you see fit..