Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

I won’t pretend that I have read all that is written here yet but I promise I will. Just a first reaction question to your idea, (before I do that I must say I have had a similar idea but on a grander scale that I will reveal once I’ve caught up with every thing) what will the rest of the children be learning outside this school that these selected few will have to go home and play with.

[Piratis]

before I do that I must say I have had a similar idea but on a grander scale that I will reveal once I’ve caught up with every thing

So what is this idea about? I am really curious.

[zan]

Dear Mills
Thank you for opening a constructive and interesting thread.
I have read all the posts to date but still have not downloaded from your site. However I do have some observations that I hope will help in your quest.
I noticed that you said that you are not a parent and at times I will probably sound smug in my writings as a parent, not because I think you know nothing about the kids, but, about the way the parents behave when it comes to schooling. The first and foremost criteria that any parent will look into when picking a school is, will it get my child into a good job. When your school is initially set up you will rely on parents to give their children as sacrificial lambs with only possible peace and reunification of Cyprus as their aim. The school will have no history of success and pedigree. The old school tie is still very important and in my experience getting more so. Maybe a possible “dream team” of teachers could be rounded up and a highly equipped school could make a difference but have you seen how much equipment (i.e.; computers, computer screen black boards, projectors etc,) a modern school has these days? I have no doubt that the schools in Cyprus will not be as well equipped as the ones abroad but this is what you have to compete against if you are to get the more affluent 50% of your school filled. The other 50% of the school will at first be filled with the poorer every day child whose parents might buy into the idea that you are proposing. But it will soon be filled with people who just want to get a good education for their children regardless of what their political views are. The rest of the programming will be done at home with tradition and crowd think.

I suppose its time for some examples. I live in an area that has a large population of pretty well off Jews that are not too religious in their every day lives but still observe all the traditions of their Jewishness. There are also quite a number of British that are equally well off both of new money and old. We on the other hand can barely afford the school fees we pay for my two sons but my eldest son has proved himself to be exceptionally bright and has lovingly forced our hand into providing the best education we can afford for him. My other son finds it a little bit more difficult, but is not doing too bad. Their first school was as you say a lottery as in first come first serve basis. I was adamant that it was to be a non-religious school as I not only do not believe but also am married to a British woman. We could not find a school that catered for atheists so we HAD to compromise and find one that was just a little bit religious. But, it had to have a proven record and be part of the system that would get my children the best possible kudos we could afford. Before you think that we are shallow, I have to tell you that the queue for these schools is as long as the population will allow. I don’t know if you know but since this country has introduced school leagues and the government publishes these tables every year, the whole of the schooling system is being chased by eager parents trying to get into the best schools. It’s not pretty at times. All the Jews the British and the rest have made sacrifices in order to get their children into these schools regardless of who else was going there that they did not particularly want to mix with. There are Indian, African, Chinese, Japanese, Jamaican, Pakistani, One Greek Cypriot and a few others along with the predominantly Jewish children in the school but very little mixing out side the school. I say that because there is a black family there and we seem to be the only family that wants any thing to do with them. They consist of the father who is one of only twelve top obstetricians in the country and a mother who is a computer annalist. We have had holy men from all the major religions in the world visit the school and the children have visited all the Mosques, Churches and Synagogues and tolerance is taught in the school every day but when they go home?

I will stop know because this is another long post but the detail was Important IMO.

[Eric dayi]

Here’s my two cents worth to this idea.

What happens if a “Chosen” family has more than 1 child, would this not cause a siblings war of jealousy? As long as the children are quite young I don’t see a problem but when they get older and realise their siblings have been given the opportunity to get better jobs and even run the country that’s when the real war between siblings will start.

Another problem that I see arising is, as mentioned above if a “chosen” family has more than 1 child (for arguments sake I’ll say 3) and 1 is chosen to go this school. This one child will learn (or should) all the things he is supposed to learn in the school including getting on with the “other side”. Ok, now you have 1 child who learns to accept and live together with the opposite sides child and you have two that get the normal education from a normal school and from their parents. What will happen at home? Which of the siblings will be able to educate the other/s and win? Would it be the 1 who’ll educate the other two and make the other two see things the way he has learned or would the 1 get fed up of being labelled a “Turk lover” a “traitor” because he/she does not see him/herself as a Turk or Greek? This is just in the family but what about when that child goes out to play or goes to a night club, how will he/she be treated?

What about the parents, how would they be seen and treated by the rest of their own communities?

As far as I can see there’s only two possible scenarios where this sort of school stands a chance of succeeding but both are impossible.

1) To move all the families into a newly built town/city and cut off any contact with the outside world until all the older generation has passed away and the new generation hasn’t killed each other of boredom.



2) Move all the “chosen” families to a foreign country where they will be free of influence from their own communities. But then there’s always the danger that most of the kids will not want to leave their “adopted” trouble free countries and return to the troublesome life they were forced to abandon in the first place. It’s like those kids taken away by the social services because their parents were violent and fighting all the time whereby the kids got hurt because one parent wanted to be the dominant partner and beats the other one (or tries to) into submission. How many children would want to return to that sort of family? My guess is, not many.


All in all a good dream but maybe it should be tried out in a country that is not divided by war, the USA would be a good place to experiment. If it works there, it’ll work anywhere.

[cypezokyli]

in israel, in such schools, it was a condition that the parents believe in peace as well. parents were also included in the programm. in north ireland the state doesnt just create schools like that. it created them only when the parents demand them.
such schools cannot work on a compulsory basis. usually tests and educating the parents go hand in hand or else it will fail. moreoever a parent who does not believe that the two sides can live together he will simply not send his child in such a school. therefore the kid will have a positive influence from home and from the school.

as for them being labelled traitors...well, it shows how much our societies need such a change. if going along with the other side makes you a traitor, then recism is indeed embedded in our heads and to the education we give to our kids.

now to zan...
objective number one: the kids should get a job. typical cypriot attitude . why does a bilingual bicultural school means that it will inevetablly be a low standards school? actually if starting from really early a kid can become more or less a natural bilingual,whicch gives him an extra advantage over the rest of the students. and besides, most of the coming together work can be done and should already start from kindergarden age. it doesnt mean that there are going to be "coming together classes" till the last grade which would hinder the education of other important subjects necessary to get a job.
...but when they go home? when they go home zan they are your responsibility. dont expect miracles froma school.

the school is not going to solve the cyprus problem. one such a school is not enough. but it is a great step forwards. and such a school is not in any case isolated from the world around. studies have shown that in cases where conflicts escalate, students who have taken part in programms of peace education have not as extreme tendencies as the students who dont mix. one school is not going to prevent a conflict from escalating. it is not its purpose. but it can indeed change the attitude of some people.

[zan]

now to zan...
objective number one: the kids should get a job. typical cypriot attitude . why does a bilingual bicultural school means that it will inevetablly be a low standards school? actually if starting from really early a kid can become more or less a natural bilingual,whicch gives him an extra advantage over the rest of the students. and besides, most of the coming together work can be done and should already start from kindergarden age. it doesnt mean that there are going to be "coming together classes" till the last grade which would hinder the education of other important subjects necessary to get a job.
...but when they go home? when they go home zan they are your responsibility. dont expect miracles froma school.

I am sorry if I did not make my self clear. I did not mean that it would be a low grade school. What I meant was for a family that is expecting their child to work in the upper levels of society, a proven school will always be the choice. At least that is the way in England. A new school will always be looked upon with suspicion only in the sense of “will it look good on my child’s CV”. In the, me, me, me world of today it is tall order to ask for you to give up your child’s future to a lottery. It is a big problem in the UK with the state schools. Parents have faked addresses in that if THEIR parents live in the right catchment area, they claim their children live there. Some have even rented property that they have no intention of living in just so they can claim that, as their place of residence on the forms. In the fee paying schools my sons both had the grand children, of a famous Jewish billionaire, that did not quite make the grade, when it came to the selective schools. Their grand father built the school a brand new theatre to bribe his way in. That’s just the tip of the iceberg. When I come to think of it, it may be better to offer the free education to only the poorer families who will probably rip your arm off at the chance. This will have to be offered to the entire family and maybe even the parents, as Eric dayi has said. This of course will have its own social problems.

But when they go home?
I’m sorry but there will be more people trying to play the system then those that have the same agenda in mind as the creator. There will always be a danger that the parents will lie about their beliefs in order to get their child into the school. This too is happening with the Church schools in England, and the Jewish schools. It has happened to such an extent that there have been policy changes in both. Before, you only had to attend the church on a regular basis for the previous year to enrolment. Now only a lifetime of worship will guarantee admission. The same has happened in The Jewish schools. But even with such extreme measures there always seems to be a way to buck the system.

I will not tolerate racism in my children but neither will I give them a false perspective of history because it will offend someone or another. My children knew from an early age who Santa clause really was.

I have to also confess that this idea does not sit easy on my mind. Mills has said that visualisation is an important part of his study. Try seeing (again) the film “Village of the damned”,( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054443/) with this idea in mind. There is also "Children of the damned" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056931/ )

Quote:
Children of the Damned is not so much a sequel to Village of the Damned as a supplement to it. This time it's children in the heart of London who are displaying terrifying powers. Instead of personalising the story as in the first film, this time screenwriter John Briley enlarges the scope to encompass some philosophical questions: what right does man have to interfere with evolution? Who's more scared, the adults or the children?

And of course, nature vs. nurture? Highly recommended, Children of the Damned is a fine example of British science fiction filmmaking, as good as Five Million Years to Earth.

[cypezokyli]

then why would a parent disagreing with the idea of the school, and at the same time he has better options, send his kid into such a school? why would he even bother lying in the first case?

[zan]

then why would a parent disagreing with the idea of the school, and at the same time he has better options, send his kid into such a school? why would he even bother lying in the first case?

That’s just what I am saying. At first, without the reputation and kudos, the school can only appeal to the poor who have no other option; or rather this could seem like a better option. If the school does manage to excel and does produce good results with theses people, then the admittance can move further up the social scale. The same sort of tricks the parents play to enrol their children is the same for both. I've seen it happen and am smack in the middle of it now. Also if these schools do better than the state schools they become a chain around the necks of the government run schools when the parents ask, why cant you produce the same results for us. Then the governments response is to either cut any funding it might be giving to these special schools which then have to either charge a fee or become totally dependant on charitable organisations which then get taxed and so it goes on. When you have a two tear system like this, the private sector which is usually better paid and better conditions in which to work, is a drain on the teacher pool which will leave the rest of the schooling system with second rate teachers. Same thing again is happening here in the UK.

[cypezokyli]

it could be done privately. with some strong sponsors in the beggining. then it can start dynamically with good teachers and aim at excellence.

[zan]

it could be done privately. with some strong sponsors in the beggining. then it can start dynamically with good teachers and aim at excellence.

Which organisations do you think are going to put money into a non fee-paying private school? If they were a specialised school say, engineering, then maybe the companies might invest in order to produce a future work force. It might even be a sports academy, but then these would demand that only the elite attend and that would defeat the object of the exercise.