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[alexISS]

Shouldnt you allow them to say what they are, its called minority rights.

Each member of the minority as an individual is allowed to say that he is a Turk or a Pomak or whatever, there's no problem with that. What is not allowed is the forming of organizations that are supposed to represent the whole minority and have the word "turkish" in their name. The reason for this is that the muslim minority of Greece consists of Turks, Pomaks and Gypsies, and Turks are no more than 50% of the total minority population. However, they try to "turkify" the rest of the minority, backed by Turkey of course, any pomak will easily verify this.

These people have been forced into change, dubbed Greek and told to keep quite by allowing token representation.

That's simply a lie. Nobody forces them to change, they have muslim names, they speak and are taught their language and they even have easier access to greek universities than the other greeks. Some complain about the mufti (possible misspelling) being appointed by the government and not elected. I was told that the mufti is more than a religious figure, he even has judicial power. If that's the case, it would be insane to let people vote for their judge, don't you think? Besides, even in Turkey the muftis are not elected, they are appointed.

The difference between them and us is that we agreed to be partners in Cyprus with you, the Greeks and Turks that live in Thrace did not.

And which one is considered to be the rule? Cyprus is an exception, and you should be grateful for that, instead of fighting for partition. There were a lot of Greeks in Istanbul, they were all deported. I'm sure they would be more than happy to stay, even under a minority status. The turks in Thrace, on the other hand, have a continiously increasing and prospering population as nobody sent them away and nobody made them want to leave. Nobody could make them leave anyway, the most obvious reason being that they are much richer than their patriots in Turkey. Why would they ever want to move there?

Our partnership failed so we now want something that will resolve our differences once and for all a solution be it reunification with safety valves or agreed partition.

Or a rearrangement with TCs as a minority. Why would the failure in partnership lead to giving even more rights to an already privileged community?

[Viewpoint]

alexISS

Each member of the minority as an individual is allowed to say that he is a Turk or a Pomak or whatever, there's no problem with that. What is not allowed is the forming of organizations that are supposed to represent the whole minority and have the word "turkish" in their name. The reason for this is that the muslim minority of Greece consists of Turks, Pomaks and Gypsies, and Turks are no more than 50% of the total minority population. However, they try to "turkify" the rest of the minority, backed by Turkey of course, any pomak will easily verify this.

Surely with minority rights they have the right to call their organizations whatever they wish, the Pakistanis and Indians in the UK have this right, so why not the Turks in Thrace. The other minorities do not have to take part in organizations they do not believe its their choice. As fortrying to "Turkify" Pomaks then if Pomaks have no self will to be what they want then surely its their problem.

That's simply a lie. Nobody forces them to change, they have muslim names, they speak and are taught their language and they even have easier access to greek universities than the other greeks. Some complain about the mufti (possible misspelling) being appointed by the government and not elected. I was told that the mufti is more than a religious figure, he even has judicial power. If that's the case, it would be insane to let people vote for their judge, don't you think? Besides, even in Turkey the muftis are not elected, they are appointed.

Thats not what they are saying, they feel discriminated against and outcast by actions and restrictions which are far from Eu norms. You really need to ask them how they feel and what their complaints are against the Greek state.

And which one is considered to be the rule? Cyprus is an exception, and you should be grateful for that, instead of fighting for partition. There were a lot of Greeks in Istanbul, they were all deported. I'm sure they would be more than happy to stay, even under a minority status. The turks in Thrace, on the other hand, have a continiously increasing and prospering population as nobody sent them away and nobody made them want to leave. Nobody could make them leave anyway, the most obvious reason being that they are much richer than their patriots in Turkey. Why would they ever want to move there?

We are greateful that such an agreement allowed Turkey to intervene and protect us at a time of great crisis, even the threat of being united with a foreign land was in itself a great damger to our exisistence.
Its for these reason that Cyprus is a special case and should be dealt with accordingly. Who knows how many Turks in Thrace leave every year due to the conditions imposed on them. Maybe thats what the Greek government desires.

Or a rearrangement with TCs as a minority. Why would the failure in partnership lead to giving even more rights to an already privileged community?

You are right a rearrangement is necessary to ensure that neither sides tries to dominate and control the other. The failure leads to improved privilidges to ensure success not a removal of contidions that woudl ensure the end of the TC community at the hands of the numerically larger GC population.

[Viewpoint]

error

[Ascot]

Enosis is a bad dream of the past!

Thank god nothing happened

Be proud to be a Cypriot First!

[alexISS]

Surely with minority rights they have the right to call their organizations whatever they wish, the Pakistanis and Indians in the UK have this right, so why not the Turks in Thrace.

Restrictions in the naming of organizations is not related to the right of self determination. Those restrictions exist only because of Turkey's stubborn attempts to create "Turkish Thracian" organizations whose memoranda have clearly provocative mentions such as "turkish western thrace". There have been numerous attempts to create such propaganda hosting organizations, that's why the "Turkish" adjective is no longer allowed in their name.

The other minorities do not have to take part in organizations they do not believe its their choice. As fortrying to "Turkify" Pomaks then if Pomaks have no self will to be what they want then surely its their problem.

Pomaks do not have a country like Turkey backing them, did you forget that?

I had a conversation with a Pomak once, he told me that his people were practically terrorised by some extremists from the turkic population and many joined those organizations against their will. I'm not saying that this is true, but I know for a fact that the "heads" of the turkish minority, although being a minority themselves, do not accept the existence of the other two muslim minorities (along the lines dictated by Turkey of course). Think of that, people that should know what being a minority is, that should be sensitive about such issues, are treating the Pomaks and the Gypsies as if they don't exist!

Thats not what they are saying, they feel discriminated against and outcast by actions and restrictions which are far from Eu norms. You really need to ask them how they feel and what their complaints are against the Greek state.

Have YOU ever asked them how they feel, or do you form your opinion from what you read in the Turkish press? I HAVE talked with a thrace muslim, he had no complaint whatsoever. He was the landlord of a good friend of mine, he told me that the ones who kept complaining were nationalists who, while in public spoke about human rights, in their private circles would even talk about a Turkish "liberation" of "Western Thrace"!

We are greateful that such an agreement allowed Turkey to intervene and protect us at a time of great crisis, even the threat of being united with a foreign land was in itself a great damger to our exisistence.Its for these reason that Cyprus is a special case and should be dealt with accordingly.

I don't think that an invasion is something that can be allowed by an agreement.

Who knows how many Turks in Thrace leave every year due to the conditions imposed on them. Maybe thats what the Greek government desires.

I just told you, noone leaves, the muslim population is increasing, do you have evidence to the contrary or are you just saying so? You didn't comment on Turkey's treatment of it's minorities yet though

You are right a rearrangement is necessary to ensure that neither sides tries to dominate and control the other. The failure leads to improved privilidges to ensure success not a removal of contidions that woudl ensure the end of the TC community at the hands of the numerically larger GC population.

Then you could just keep causing failure after failure. In the end, every T/C will have 10 votes per election, 2 empty seats in Universities, free land ownership and free business class flight tickets. Funny as it sounds, it IS the way people like you think.

[michalis5354]

It is this mentality that brought the division of the island! The slave mentality!
Turkey also claims that there is no Cypriot Nation! There is South Greek Part and the North Turkish Part .There are Greeks and Turks on the island who share nothing in common and have 2 distinct ethnicities.

Turkey also claims that there is no ROC but the GC administration. And the country ROC does not even exist!


It is readiculous to see people suporting Turkeish propaganda by claiming that we are not Cypriots but Greeks. This is exactly what the Turksih Policy is arguing to confirm and seal the division of the island.

What determines Nationality are International Agreemenst and not history, language or religion.

[Strahd]

What determines Nationality are International Agreemenst and not history, language or religion.

Who are you really????? Which planet are you coming from? Mars???

So if there was an international agreement that said you were from Mars then you would declare to us you are a Martian????? I hope there are not many with your ideas on this island...

[Strahd]

Enosis is a bad dream of the past!

Thank god nothing happened

Be proud to be a Cypriot First!

Yes and part of a divided disputed creation of foreign powers.... you are the slave!

[michalis5354]

Who are you really????? Which planet are you coming from? Mars???

So if there was an international agreement that said you were from Mars then you would declare to us you are a Martian????? I hope there are not many with your ideas on this island...

Yes there are international agreements signed back in 1960 that state clearly that ROC is an INDEPENDENT state. I dont think there is a need for more discussion on this.

Are you a Turk from Ankara? Why do you support the Turksih Policies on Cyprus? Are you a former EOKA B member ?

Your definition of what is a Cypriot reminds me the one provided by Tuirkey !Maybe you are a Turk behind that nickname!

[Kozza]

Thanks for continuing this while I've been asleep. It's turned out to be an interesting discussion. I don't think we can now blame one side or another for identifying themselves as Cypriot Turks or Cypriot Greeks. I prefer the term Turkish or Greek Cypriot because it defines us as Cypriots foremost belonging to an ethnis sub group. We missed the opportunity to assimilate into a more homogenous grouping and I don't think we'll ever get that back.

One note, Greeks on the west coast of Turkey were exchanged from those areas because of the perceived threat from Greece felt by Turkey. On the Black Sea which was far enough away there was not so much pressure to do this. Eighty years on many of those Greeks have been assimilated into the Turkish culture yet retain their identity of Greek heritage. Some of these Pontic Greeks are now living in Ayios Sergios and are fervent Turkish nationalists.

Just thought I'd add the fact that those Turkish citizens with Greek ancestry are barred from joining the Turkish airforce. So I guess there is still a perceived threat.