Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

The bird has flown. The train went by and we failed to get on it. Solution is not possible now, the world has more pressing issues to worry about. Both communities, it seems, are happy with the way things are at the moment.

Are you Viewpoint in disguise?

what does that have to do with vp ?

are you seeing any solution coming anytime soon ?
should we start preparing our concrete ?

[Piratis]

are you seeing any solution coming anytime soon ?

i have never seen any solution coming. The only train that went by was the one that would legalize the division of our country and the violations of our human rights.

Turkey and TCs had the chance to achieve a solution that would be better for them even than the 1960 agreements, but they blew it with their maximalistic demands. As we say, the one who asks for too much will lose everything in the end. Turkey is now about to miss the train that would take them to the EU.

If they are smart enough they will soon wake up and realize that they can only lose from insisting on their maximalistic demands. If the balance of power changes before they do, then they will be begging for the minimum.

[elko]

Piratis wrote

As we say, the one who asks for too much will lose everything in the end.

I fully agree with you on this one. Greek Cypriots have always regretted the opportunities they missed in the past.

In my view Turkey has no wish to be a part of EU but it suits them to pretend otherwise for various reasons:
a) To reduce the power of the army in domestic politics,
b) To attract more foreign investments.

I am sure a day will come when GCs will beg to implement the Annan Plan but its too late my friend.
ismet

PS: We do not have the Presidential System in TRNC, thus Talat's position as President is safe and sound. It is the Prime Minister Ferdi Sabit Soyer who has resigned and has been given the job to form another government

[Kifeas]

I fully agree with you on this one. Greek Cypriots have always regretted the opportunities they missed in the past. .

Which opportunities have we "missed" in the past?

I am sure a day will come when GCs will beg to implement the Annan Plan but its too late my friend.

And I sure a day will come when the TCs will beg to be incluted as ordinary citizens of the RoC, but it will be too late my friend!

[elko]

Elko wrote:

I fully agree with you on this one. Greek Cypriots have always regretted the opportunities they missed in the past. .

Kifeas wrote:
Which opportunities have we "missed" in the past?

[/quote]
Do you remember "Acheson Plan"? Turkey was to be given a base in Karpasia but GCs refused. Later in 1974 after the first cease fire, Turkish Cypriots asked for a number of "Turkish Cantons" and again refused.

Kifeas wrote:
And I sure a day will come when the TCs will beg to be incluted as ordinary citizens of the RoC, but it will be too late my friend!

Would you care to explain this apparently nonsensical statement please?

ismet

[Kifeas]

Do you remember "Acheson Plan"? Turkey was to be given a base in Karpasia but GCs refused. Later in 1974 after the first cease fire, Turkish Cypriots asked for a number of "Turkish Cantons" and again refused.

And why giving the entire Karpasia to Turkey as a base, and Enosis of the rest of Cyprus with Greece, as per the Acheson Plan, was a missed opportunity?

As for the above 1974 proposal, it was made not by the TCs -Denktash was insisting on a single area of 34% along almost the same line that was later occupied, from Lefka to Famagusta; but was made by Gunes -FM of Turkey, in Geneva on the eve of 13-14 of August 1974. It was indeed a “Cantonal arrangement,” again equal with 34% of Cyprus, but it was not rejected as such but Klerides. Instead, he asked for a 36 hour period to consult with Makarios and other GCs, and then to reply. Gunes cynically said to him: “A yes or a no, now!” Mavros -the FM of Greece stood up and said to the discussion panel that: “what we see now is a comedy being played in front of our eyes, because Turkish troops are about ready to commence a second invasion, if they haven’t started yet as we talk!” Gunes left the discussion room immediately and called Ecevit to whom he said: “Ayse may go on vacation,” signalling in this way the beginning of the second Turkish assault. As a result, you now occupy 36% of Cyprus illegally, whereas had Klerides accepted Gunes’ proposal, you would have occupied 34% of Cyprus legally -with our signature.

The truth of the matter was that the Cantonal arrangement that was proposed by Turkey would have been much better for Turkey, as it would have brought the entire of Cyprus under its domination (large Turkish military bases /cantons on the coast lines around Cyprus, i.e. Pafos, Larnaka, Famagusta, Lefka, Karpasia, plus the entire area of North Nicosia /Kyrenia that was occupied during the first phase and Cease fire,) but it would have been much worst for the TCs since they would have remained fragmented in 6 different areas of Cyprus, without direct access from one area to the other.

Do you know what Callahan (British FM) said in a statement after all the above and the collapse of the Geneva talks on the evening of the 13 of August 1974?

Would you care to explain this apparently nonsensical statement please?

Ismet

If you explain to me your own nonsensical statement regarding us begging for the Annan plan, perhaps you will also understand what I have meant with mine.

[elko]

Kifeas, don't be upset, whether you like it or not Turkish Cypriots are here to stay. I am a Phafian from Ktima but now I live in Famagusta. In modern times people change places for various reasons. Gone are the days where people were born, lived all their lives in the same village happily and finally buried there. If it is not for economic reasons it is for political reasons and the sooner people accept it the better. People who keep carrying a chip on their shoulders keep making mistakes and they get into deeper trouble. This is life. You as a people are under enormous pressure from the Greek Orthodox Church and short sighted politicians who see virtue in saying NO in every and all circumstances. I think it is only the Greek Nation and of course the Greek Cypriots who have an "OXI" day as a national day. What a big deal. Germany cut through Greece like a hot knife through butter. There you are, I hope one day you get a real Statesman to help you out. Another Karamanlis would be a good chance but can't see any on the horizon unless Papadopoulos goes through a total metamorphosis and comes out as a totally new butterfly.


Kifeas wrote:

And I sure a day will come when the TCs will beg to be incluted as ordinary citizens of the RoC, but it will be too late my friend!

Now you want me to explain something before you explain this statement. Are you now ashamed of this statement? You must be. With friends like you, Cypriots on both sides do not need any enemies. Nonetheless, we will keep trying for a harmonious Cyprus, if not possible together because of people like you, at least side by side.
I hope I have not spoilt your Sunday too much. Have a good day.
ismet

[Kifeas]

Kifeas, don't be upset, whether you like it or not Turkish Cypriots are here to stay. I am a Phafian from Ktima but now I live in Famagusta. In modern times people change places for various reasons. Gone are the days where people were born, lived all their lives in the same village happily and finally buried there. If it is not for economic reasons it is for political reasons and the sooner people accept it the better.

And who said to you that I dispute your right to stay, either in Pafos or in Famagusta or anywhere else across Cyprus? I, (and any other GC I know) do not dispute your (and any other TC's) rights as a citizen of this country to exist anywhere you choose within your country. It is you and your community's leadership that dispute the rights of the GCs to exist in any part of their country they choose, including the very places in which they were born and raised and their ancestors have existed, in the north part of their country. It is you the ones that dispute our rights to exist in parts of our country, and not us yours!

[Bananiot]

Elko, the paphian, wrote:

Another Karamanlis would be a good chance but can't see any on the horizon unless Papadopoulos goes through a total metamorphosis and comes out as a totally new butterfly.

Here you are:

"A crisis with Turkey is to noone's interests"

That was a statement by Papadopoulos, from Helsinki, the other day. So, who knows, we may yet see Papadopoulos metamorphosising, but to a butterfly, I very much doubt..

[elko]

Kifeas wrote:

And who said to you that I dispute your right to stay, either in Pafos or in Famagusta or anywhere else across Cyprus? I, (and any other GC I know) do not dispute your (and any other TC's) rights as a citizen of this country to exist anywhere you choose within your country.

Well, well, how does this tie in with your previous statement?

And I sure a day will come when the TCs will beg to be incluted as ordinary citizens of the RoC, but it will be too late my friend!

Now to your statement

It is you and your community's leadership that dispute the rights of the GCs to exist in any part of their country they choose, including the very places in which they were born and raised and their ancestors have existed, in the north part of their country. It is you the ones that dispute our rights to exist in parts of our country, and not us yours!

This is a quite normal statement if you consider that nothing happened between 1963 and 1974. Turkish Cypriots ran for their lives, they took refuge in enclaves that consisted of only 3% of the total area of Cyprus and they were thrown out of the government. Turkish Cypriots had difficulty travelling in Cyprus with numerous Greek Cypriot police check points. At each check point, the whole bus load would be searched with no hurry. Travelling from Lefka to Nicosia was a short distance, normally taking less than one hour but it took 5-6 hours to cover that journey. I was in England at the time but my elderly father used to tell me how he was made to stand under the strong sun and wait for his turn to be searched, time and time again because of numerous check points. This is the kind of harassment that Greek Cypriots did to Turkish Cypriots and now you have the cheek to complain about not being able to visit your birth place. Indeed now you can but do not pretend as if nothing happened. Let us live side by side and in time if the Greek Cypriots mend their ways we can mix more freely, why not.
ismet