Cyprus-Forum.com

[doglover]

The United States & Americans in general have little or no idea how their foreign policies affect the rest of the world.
I am a reular traveller to the 'States on Business, & over the years I have realized the the average JOE has very low levels of education; little or no global awareness; pathetic knowledge of geography & a very inbred patriotic flag-flying streak that is as scary as it is funny.

Add all this into the mix, give them guns & an insatiable need for oil to fuel their terribly inneficient cars & the result is exactly what we have today. A mess.

Everything is not bad though. Americans have also given the world gastronomique gems like McD's & KFC.
Obesity US style!!!

Although you have some good points in your post, you cannot speak for ALL American people. I have some friends in LA that want Bush out of office, because they feel he has done more bad than good. They also didn't support the war in Iraq.

There are many insular Americans that think America is the 'World', and they resort to the gungho, Pro-Bush, flag-waving attitude, to which you are referring to in your post. But these kind of people exist in every country, including Cyprus. Those that poison animals here are just as bad, as they haven't lived in the UK, or US, to see how English and American people treat animals there, so they don't have any examples to measure things against. They have no worldly knowledge. Those that have lived in other countries in the world, (eg. Miltiades) have a much wider understanding of the world.

After 9/11, I did not hate America for going to war with Afghanistan. Terrorists that train at terrorist camps, have only one goal on their mind, to wipe out the entire Western way of life, by targeting innocent people. Those people are the most dangerous kind, as they pose a big threat to many innocent people. They deserve to be hunted down with much aggression, and stopped with any measure available, to make this world a safer place.

If you remember recently, several terrorists were plotting to board planes at Heathrow airport and blow up them up mid-air. Imagine if you were a regular traveller to England on business. What if they had successfully followed through on their plans, and you had been on one of those planes that they blew up? Scary thought, isn't it? Your parents would no longer be insulting the American and British government. They would be blaming the terrorists, and rightly so. You have no interest in the British government, and nothing you do or say promotes the British government. So where was the justice in yours, and every other passengers death?

Terrorists are not targetting the American or British government. They are targetting innocent people.

What you're basically saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that terrorists are the only solution to stopping the American government? And that the American government asked for it? If that's so... then I couldn't disagree more with you.

But let's not forget that there are insular people in every country of the world. I am unable to speak to certain relatives of mine about various issues in Cyprus, because they are not open to criticism, and they don't know any better, because they haven't lived elsewhere in the world to measure things against. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard people here say "Kala tous ekaman tous Amerikanous" when 9/11 is brought up. I have several English friends that I like having open minded discussions with about various things. They openly critisize their own government, and it does not offend them when I question them about their government.

I think GorillaGal originally started this thread to talk about the victims of 9/11. I believe she was in New York at the time, and it effected her directly. She was there to experience the pain and suffering of others. Although you are right to say that you do not like the way America is politically headed... this does not justify these types of barbaric attacks from insane wannabe martyrs that are capable of killing many innocents.

Please let's stick to the topic. The victims of 9/11.

[GorillaGal]

The United States & Americans in general have little or no idea how their foreign policies affect the rest of the world.
I am a reular traveller to the 'States on Business, & over the years I have realized the the average JOE has very low levels of education; little or no global awareness; pathetic knowledge of geography & a very inbred patriotic flag-flying streak that is as scary as it is funny.

Add all this into the mix, give them guns & an insatiable need for oil to fuel their terribly inneficient cars & the result is exactly what we have today. A mess.

Everything is not bad though. Americans have also given the world gastronomique gems like McD's & KFC.
Obesity US style!!!

first, i want to say THANK YOU to DogLover, who is intelligent enough and compassionate enough to understand the true meaning of this thread, and to be open minded about it.
for the record, I too, spent 3 years living in Europe, and upon returning to the USA, hated the stereotypes of the american people here.
but lets keep in mind, no country is perfect. this is ONE WOELD, and we are all in this together.
also for the record, which i stated earluier in this thread, i do not, nor ever have, supported george w. bush, and i am not sure i support the "war" in iraq. however, our sons and daughters (brothers, sisters, mother's, fathers....) are over there fighting for what they believe to be our freedom. i may not support my president, but i support our troops.
as for what mariocy said about out "inbred patriotic flag-flying streak" we have here, that is a result of the events of 9-11. prior to that, there were very few flags flown in places other than government offices. One of the good things to come out of 9-11 is the emense patriotic pride, and the heros that were born that day just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. all those fire fighters, and police, and emergency care workers who died trying to save innocent people OF ALL nations, and all kinds of backgrounds.
we are one of the larger counties in the world. should we just sit around and let other countries do atrocities to other smaller countries? i am not saying the USA is better than any other country, but i know that if animals are abused, or the police or military do something unethical, they are held accountable for it.

i live in a suburb of NY City. NYC is one of the greatest cities in the world. we have every nationality, embracing every culture. although we are not perfect, there is probably alot more tolerance of the differences between people than there is in Cyprus. My father, who is of eurpean background, is presently maried to an afro-american. i was married to a Colombian citizen, and have dated several latinos, as well an an indian, a turk, a greek, a (greek) cypriot, an african-american, a native american, a german, to name the ones i can remember at present. all i hear about the cypriots is how they want to stay with their own kind, and YOU, dear mariocy, want to talk about "inbred"????

it's a big country here in the USA. i will admit we can be rather self centered at time, but not all of us aree like that. i, for one, did not know much, if anything, about Cyprus until i fell in love with a GC. but i am here now, on your board, wanting to know more, and hoping someday i can come to visit.

BTW< you are welcome for McD and KFC. i don't eat there myself, but if they exsist in CY, at least SOMEONE is eating there.

NOW BACK TO THE THREAD... What were you doing on 9-11, and how does it impact your life?

GG

Goddess Bless America
(because freedom of religion means ALL religions!)

[doglover]

I forgot to mention in my initial posting where I was on 9/11. I was in the car with my fiancee driving back from Nicosia. We heard the announcement on the radio, that a plane had hit one of the twin towers in New York. We both knew something was seriously wrong, so we rushed home to turn on the news. Tears streamed down my face as I watched the second plane hit the tower. We then saw close-up views of people plunging to their deaths from the burning buildings. I broke down in tears.

I will also never forget the bravery and sacrifice of the rescue workers who gave their lives on September 11th, trying to save those innocent people who were trapped in the towers.

Imagine being told that your son died trying to get a paralyzed woman out of the burning building, moments before it crashed down on them.

[GorillaGal]

A month after the attacks, i wnet into the City to see Ground Zero. i remember the smell when i got out of the subway in lower manhattan. it was the same smell of the town i lived in Germany, on the days the creamatorium was working. it was the smell of burning flesh.
there was silence in manhattan. no traffic, just people walking around aimlessly. no one was happy, no one was smiling. some of us had tears in our eyes. the renced off area keeping the general public back from the rescue workers, whom at this point were really just clean up workers, was a wall of flowers, candles, and missing persons flyers.
i have never felt so contected to the city and it's people. a stranger could have gone up to another stranger and hugged them, and cried on thier shoulder, and it would have been alright.

five years later, that pain is still there inside me.
i will never forget.

[Kikapu]

5 years ago today, while the 9/11 attacks were going on, I was sleeping on my sail boat "KIKAPU" in the San Francisco Bay, California. The time difference to East Coast is 3 hours. I woke up as the sun was shinning through the porthole, I reached over and turned the morning talk radio on. It took me a while to realise what the hell they were talking about. I did not have a TV aboard, so I was left only with the radio to get as much info as possible. By this time, I had slept through everything. There was so much reporting going on, there were some "facts" and a lot of "guessings", so it was very difficult to visualize what was happening. Then I got a phone call from my girlfriend from Switzerland telling me what has happend, and asked me to stay on the boat, and not go into town (SF). Soon after, I made a phone call to wish an X Girlfriend a Happy Birthday, who lives not too far, up in the wine counrty, Napa. She was too shocked to even celebrate her birthday.

Well, I did go to the nearest TV that I could find, and the whole event was repeated over and over and over. I have to say, most people did not feel the full effects of 9/11 out on the West Coast. We were 3,000 miles away from what had occured. Naturally, were all saddened, but it did not effect our lives that much. I was in San Francisco, October 17th, 1989 when we had our last big earthquake, with roads and bridges out of use, no phone service or electricity for few days. That to me was worse, because it effected me and everyone else personally.

The worst part of this event, was the fact, it was in front of everyones eyes, around the world, through the TV set. I understand the point Piratis was making earlier, whether this event was worse than other major ones. The actuall event.... NO. The effects of the event...YES..It was worse than anything else that we have all witnessed. Had the Hiroshima or Nagasaki were filmed and shown live in our rooms, that would have been worse, including Pearl Harbour. This was like a plane crash, when a large group of people died, all at the same time, at the same place, having all boarded the plane together, to never to be seen alive again, that most passengers coming from every walks of life. Although not everyone died at the same time on 9/11, but they might as well have done, because it was all related to the SAME event. However, this "plane crash", had 3,000 people aboard, so the effects were huge.

I don't know if most people know this, but on any given MONTH, there are on average 3,000 deaths in the USA, all related to crime, perpetrated by Americans on Americans. So, in effect, there is a 9/11 (in deaths) happening every month, but the country is totally unaffected by this. But the 3,000 deaths, from the 9/11 attacks will be remembered for ever. So, Piratis's question is very valid, "is every death equal". I know he said American life as suppose to non American lives, but the question is valid all the same.

Now, being in Switzerland and 9 hours ahead of California, it's almost time to call and wish the X Girlfriend, a Happy Birthday again....

[andri_cy]

On 9/11 I was 6 months pregnant and very miserable. I was on bed rest for the remaining 3 months. I was lying down while my husband was getting ready for work. My mom called from Cyprus to see if everyone is ok. I guess she used to get kind of confused about how big a country can be and how far away we were. As soon as she called we turned on the tv and watched while they showed what was going on. I was very scared and sad.

[miltiades]

Kikapu wrote:
"""don't know if most people know this, but on any given MONTH, there are on average 3,000 deaths in the USA, all related to crime, perpetrated by Americans on Americans. So, in effect, there is a 9/11 (in deaths) happening every month, but the country is totally unaffected by this. But the 3,000 deaths, from the 9/11 attacks will be remembered for ever. So, Piratis's question is very valid, "is every death equal". I know he said American life as suppose to non American lives, but the question is valid all the same. """
Kikapu , you know I have an affinity towards you and find you not only intelligent but at times very entertaining, however let me just reprimand your statement above , in which you appear to dismiss the gravity of the horrific events of 9/11 by informing us that 3000 are killed every month in America by Americans therefore why all the fuss.
Do you know how many children die on the roads in America every year ? Do you know how many babies die of cot death in America every year ? Do we then expect intelligent people like you and zyperzokily to quantify the murder of 10 children by a sadist by using the same intolerably foolish arguments .No Kikapu , there is no moral comparison with the premeditated cold blooded murder of innocents by a bunch of f..ng lunatics who are the victims themselves of a lunatic ideology .
Still friends I hope !

[cypezokyli]

let me try once again, but please read what i write.pleeeeeeease.

no doubt these were fanatics, and no doubt that there is no moral ground for that attack.

but as kikapu said, the only reason that the 9/11 is different from all other horrors of this earth, is simply the huge media coverage. our western culture is de facto a culture that we accept that any death of a westerner will inevitably take more time on tv, than thousands of non-westerners.

now.... you are talking that there is no moral comparison with the premeditated cold blooded murder of innocents by a bunch of f..ng lunatics who are the victims themselves of a lunatic ideology.
i dont disagree with you with your charactirisation but let me give you another example and i then you tell me in what "religion" or "ideology"these people believe in , and if their actions make any difference

Some 30 million children contract measles every year. Of those, 745,000 die, making it the deadliest vaccine-preventable disease.

“It costs less than a dollar to vaccinate a child against measles,

http://www.redcross.org/article/0,1072, ... 98,00.html
(The US alone spends more than 500 000 000 $ on its army ( 745 000$ is less then 0.02% of that)

Many people, most of them in tropical countries of the Third World, die of preventable, curable diseases.… Malaria, tuberculosis, acute lower-respiratory infections—in 1998, these claimed 6.1 million lives. People died because the drugs to treat those illnesses are nonexistent or are no longer effective. They died because it doesn’t pay to keep them alive.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/19990719/silverstein


if the life of a child in the africa would worth the same as a the life of a westerner then, we should have had almost 2000 TIMES more tv/ press coverage, in comparison to the 9/11. the chances are that the coverage is 2000 times less.

ofcource the 9/11 suicide bombers are fanatics, who believed in a distortion of a religion to bring death.

while the others believe in a better god. the money-god. - concequantly their actions are morally better

they dont die themeslves but allow 6 million kids to die from preventable diseases - as a concequence their actions is morally better.

they dont use a bombs but they set the prices... mutliple times more kids die , but their actions are nevertheless morally better.

BBC and CNN, do not use as much of the time to cover the unfair death of those children , therefore the 9/11 are ofcource morally worse.

G.W. only declared war on terror. so, no doubt it is morally better not to provide drugs than blow yourself up.


sometimes i believe that if some western leaders CEOs of the pharma- and military industry, would have the guts to blow themslves up, this world would have been certainly a better place.

[miltiades]

"""but as kikapu said, the only reason that the 9/11 is different from all other horrors of this earth, is simply the huge media coverage. our western culture is de facto a culture that we accept that any death of a westerner will inevitably take more time on tv, than thousands of non-westerners. """

You should be crowned as the King of absurd comparability . You listen and read what I say. We are not discussing how many people die of cancer or any other decease but the indiscriminate premeditated Murder of thousands of innocent people. How many people die of a preventable decease , a heart attack , cancer , road accident , IS NOT A COMPARISON for crying out loud get it in your head . If someone rapes and kills an innocent child YOU CONDEMN UNRESERVEDLY THE CRIME. You do not offer absurd parallels.You are biased and have a closed mind , I will nor respond to any such nonsense from you.

[andri_cy]

No Miltiades, the point wasnt about how people died, the point was wether a life in the US was more important than a life elsewhere if they both died, no matter how. We are not comparing the fear factor impact and the fanaticism factor here. We are talking life for life. I believe in a way Kikapu and Cypezokyli are both onto something and you shouldnt dismiss them so easily neither call them absurd because what they say isnt what you or I would like to hear.
Of course GG started this thread asking what people were doing that day and we kind of veered off the subject(shame on us all) but would there be so much care and concern if instead of the twin towers Mexico was attacked? I do not think so.