Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

The Orams (and all the crooks in the north, British and TCs alike) have won absolutely nothing, even from such a politically motivated decision(see relevant thread) of the British High Court! In fact, they lost more than they thought they could have claimed so far! The same applies to the Turkish propaganda allegations!

The Turkish propaganda alleges that the Turkish invasion was not an invasion but instead a peace operation, that the north is not under Turkish occupation, and that there was no ethnic cleansing of the GCs from this area of Cyprus. Yet, in the Orams v. Apostolides judgment which they celebrate so fervently, the above realities are fully accepted and adopted by the British high court, contrary to the Turkish propaganda claims. In a sense, what they celebrate is the defeat of their propaganda allegations, together with their temporary achievement to get away with illegalities.

In paragraph 3 of the judgment, the court accepts that “On 20 July 1974 the Turkish army invaded the north of the island ….” The court further accepts that One outcome of this was the effective expulsion of Greek Cypriots from much of the area that was occupied.” Therefore, it was not a peace operation as the Turkish propaganda tries to paint it, but it was an invasion, an occupation and an act of ethnic cleansing (“expulsion of Greek Cypriots from much of the area that was occupied.”) Yet, they celebrate the judgment!

Furthermore, in paragraph 31 of the above judgment, the British high court finds that:

"I do not think that the case for Mr and Mrs Orams on this aspect of the appeal can be put in any other way. The land is within the Republic of Cyprus. There is no conflict with Article 22.1 of the Regulation. It is not within the territory of another Member State. The cases in the European Court of Human Rights show that the laws of the TRNC cannot be relied on by Mr and Mrs Orams to deprive Mr Apostolides of his title to the land. In any event that would involve a review of the substance of the judgment of the District Court of 19 April 2005, contrary to Article 36. So on these matters I accept the submissions of Mr Beazley."

Basically, what the Orams are celebrating is not their vindication as to whether what they did was an illegality (trespassing,) or not, or that Apostolides is not the real owner of the property in which they built their villa, but they are celebrating the fact that their act will remain (temporarily) with impunity. They were not vindicated morally, and they were not cleared out legally. They just got away with impunity for the time being, and this is what they celebrate.

The Orams have won absolutely nothing! In fact they lost more than what they thought they had before! Not just the Orams, but more importantly all the crooks in the north that illegally "sell" GC properties to foreigners, and those "buying" them, because now it is also verified by a British court ruling that what they do is illegal, and that now the notorious UK government under Tony Blair will also be required and obliged to amend its notorious travelling advise to its citizens considering to "buy" GC properties in the north, and make it more explicit, in accordance to the findings of the British High Court in paragraph 31 of the Orams judgment.

[cypezokyli]

did anyone had any doubt that the act of the orams was illegal ? !!!!
i think alexios was the one who said some time ago : even a first year student of law knows that apostolides title is the only real one.

the question is in practise, if the orams will be arrested on any corner of europe for their illegality. and for that, there is a long way till the european courts.


i have said this advice before, and repeat it once again to the foreigners who have bought land belonging to refuggees. when the refuggee attempts to visit his land, show some courtesy and dont be rude (as many tend to be). neither tc not even settlers reacted as the british did! in fact the majority of tcs were very hospitable and polite.

it is the rudeness , arrogance and no respect to the pain of the other from the orams side, that started the whole thing. it started as something very personal. the politics were involved later on.

[Viewpoint]

The Orams (and all the crooks in the north, British and TCs alike) have won absolutely nothing, even from such a politically motivated decision(see relevant thread) of the British High Court! In fact, they lost more than they thought they could have claimed so far! The same applies to the Turkish propaganda allegations!

The Turkish propaganda alleges that the Turkish invasion was not an invasion but instead a peace operation, that the north is not under Turkish occupation, and that there was no ethnic cleansing of the GCs from this area of Cyprus. Yet, in the Orams v. Apostolides judgment which they celebrate so fervently, the above realities are fully accepted and adopted by the British high court, contrary to the Turkish propaganda claims. In a sense, what they celebrate is the defeat of their propaganda allegations, together with their temporary achievement to get away with illegalities.

In paragraph 3 of the judgment, the court accepts that “On 20 July 1974 the Turkish army invaded the north of the island ….” The court further accepts that One outcome of this was the effective expulsion of Greek Cypriots from much of the area that was occupied.” Therefore, it was not a peace operation as the Turkish propaganda tries to paint it, but it was an invasion, an occupation and an act of ethnic cleansing (“expulsion of Greek Cypriots from much of the area that was occupied.”) Yet, they celebrate the judgment!

Furthermore, in paragraph 31 of the above judgment, the British high court finds that:

"I do not think that the case for Mr and Mrs Orams on this aspect of the appeal can be put in any other way. The land is within the Republic of Cyprus. There is no conflict with Article 22.1 of the Regulation. It is not within the territory of another Member State. The cases in the European Court of Human Rights show that the laws of the TRNC cannot be relied on by Mr and Mrs Orams to deprive Mr Apostolides of his title to the land. In any event that would involve a review of the substance of the judgment of the District Court of 19 April 2005, contrary to Article 36. So on these matters I accept the submissions of Mr Beazley."

Basically, what the Orams are celebrating is not their vindication as to whether what they did was an illegality (trespassing,) or not, or that Apostolides is not the real owner of the property in which they built their villa, but they are celebrating the fact that their act will remain (temporarily) with impunity. They were not vindicated morally, and they were not cleared out legally. They just got away with impunity for the time being, and this is what they celebrate.

The Orams have won absolutely nothing! In fact they lost more than what they thought they had before! Not just the Orams, but more importantly all the crooks in the north that illegally "sell" GC properties to foreigners, and those "buying" them, because now it is also verified by a British court ruling that what they do is illegal, and that now the notorious UK government under Tony Blair will also be required and obliged to amend its notorious travelling advise to its citizens considering to "buy" GC properties in the north, and make it more explicit, in accordance to the findings of the British High Court in paragraph 31 of the Orams judgment.

Difficult pill to swallow Kifeas?, you appear to be foaming at the mouth.

The idea was to frighten off any prospective buyers by grabbing the Orams property in Hove. You were unsuccessful what effect this will have on the market we will see over the coming months. Im sure you will continue to pursue avenues which will not solve the overall issue but bring momentary satisfaction of vengence "getting back" which you so keenly seek. Good luck next time but never believe everything will go 100% your way. There are 2 sides to every story.

[souroul]

apostolides may have lost in the short run, but chances are that he will win in the long run.

on the other hand, the british times had an article about how dangerous it is to buy property in the north, and advised against it.

i really hope that housing prices keep going up this fast, and even faster, so that theres no real benefit of buying a house up there

by the way, what will happen to those who illegaly built on GC land when theres finally a solution to the cyprus
problem?




oh, Viewpoint, according to your posts, its you thats foaming, and out of your ass at that. you do realise that its you that lives in the kotsiatis wannabe dumpster, not kifeas. and let me tell you about the isolation that you bitch and moan about all the time. give the land back, or you are MORE than welcome to rot on it. and dont you even start with me about how this hatred will never bring peace between the two communities because this is just a responce to your preposterous posts, and your support for selling our land. oh and dont even bother to say about how that land is now yours because all the world recognises the fact that its stolen, minus a military dictatorship... i wonder, who should i trust? thats the million pound question. is it that hard for you to comprehend that your wannabe republic doesnt exist outside turkey for a reason? oh no, i guess everyone is stupid besides you.. what a joke

[Viewpoint]

souroul who pulled your chain? you need to learn to be a bit more respectful.

you do realise that its you that lives in the kotsiatis wannabe dumpster,

Whats this?? Im sure it must be bad but hey I dont have a problem with your insults as they do not registers I am safe, live a good life, and this is what annoys you the most, get over it.

and let me tell you about the isolation that you bitch and moan about all the time. give the land back, or you are MORE than welcome to rot on it.

Ok agreed we will rot on it.

and dont you even start with me about how this hatred will never bring peace between the two communities because this is just a responce to your preposterous posts, and your support for selling our land.

Life goes on and will go on it wont wait for GCs to genuinely and sincerely want a solution. Annan plans dont come around every day as you are no doubt now aware.

oh and dont even bother to say about how that land is now yours because all the world recognises the fact that its stolen, minus a military dictatorship... i wonder, who should i trust? thats the million pound question. is it that hard for you to comprehend that your wannabe republic doesnt exist outside turkey for a reason? oh no, i guess everyone is stupid besides you.. what a joke

Then what are you bitching about you have no problem go agree a solution with the rest of the world as appear to not count in this equation.

[Piratis]

ou need to learn to be a bit more respectful.

And this is said by Viewpoint, a person who supports the criminal pseudo state in the occupied areas and all the other illegalities that violate the human rights of 100.000s of people and the sovereignty of Republic of Cyprus.

[PaulUK]

Dont buy anything in the occupied area because when Turkey finally joins EU you will lose it and rightly so!

[Viewpoint]

ou need to learn to be a bit more respectful.

And this is said by Viewpoint, a person who supports the criminal pseudo state in the occupied areas and all the other illegalities that violate the human rights of 100.000s of people and the sovereignty of Republic of Cyprus.

I am not personally disrespectful to anyones viewpoint unless provoked. You played with a bomb it exploded in your face now you complain. The only way for you to pick up the pieces is to prove a united Cyprus would be better for us than the current division. Feel free to do so whenever you wish.

[souroul]

souroul who pulled your chain? you need to learn to be a bit more respectful.

you did. why dont you try that first

Whats this?? Im sure it must be bad but hey I dont have a problem with your insults as they do not registers I am safe, live a good life, and this is what annoys you the most, get over it.

yeah its bad, and you may be one of the few in that sitation. i've seen whats going on over there with my own eyes.

Ok agreed we will rot on it.

k good, make sure you dont grow though.

Life goes on and will go on it wont wait for GCs to genuinely and sincerely want a solution. Annan plans dont come around every day as you are no doubt now aware.

what part of "the anan plan was unfair to us" do you not understand? just because someone came up with a solution thats leaning your way we have to take it? you really dont have an argument here so stop mentioning it.

Then what are you bitching about you have no problem go agree a solution with the rest of the world as appear to not count in this equation.

the real solution is me coming over there and kickng your ass all the way back to ankara but i'll just say that if theres a solution thats 50% fair to us we'll take it... but guess who wants more than they deserve, and is not greatful for what is given to him. opios theli ta polla hani kai ta liga

[Piratis]

I am not personally disrespectful to anyones viewpoint unless provoked.

You are disrespectful to things much more important than their viewpoint. You are disrespectful towards our human and democratic rights and the sovereignty of our country.

The only way for you to pick up the pieces is to prove a united Cyprus would be better for us than the current division.

But division can be better for you (if you manage to achieve your dream and legalize it, which will not happen of course). With partition you can exploit our lands, sell them to foreigners and generally gain from what you took from us with the tanks of Turkey. So how can I convince you for the contrary? All I can do is fight against your crimes, to make sure that you have loses as well, and to plan for the day that we will take back what you stole from us.