Cyprus-Forum.com

[rolo]

he could have bought seven plots

[Kifeas]

Would have been cheaper to buy the damn plot back from the Orams

He who laughs last laughs longest!

[Kifeas]

He'll end up beating himself to death, VP.

Really?

[rolo]

with houses on.

[cypezokyli]

i have expressed many times that the strategy to solve the cyprus problem in court is not very wise.

on the case at hand, i believe that apostolides will win in the end.

[Sotos]

How old are the Orams? If they don't lose they will be dragged at courts until they die.

[Kozza]

I think GC emotions are fuelled more by the fact that TCs moved into many GC properties out of economic necessity after 1974. I remember visiting Cyprus in the 1980s and still seeing bullet holes or EOKA graffiti on walls that people didn't bother cleaning or repairing because the political future seemed so uncertain. Over the past ten years a new generation of TCs seem to have taken more pride in their dwellings and view their properties with more permanence, even though they may have been formally GC owned. This, and the fact that foreigners have invested much money in old Greek houses in picturesque places like Bellapais means that GC properties in the North have been maintained and in some instances improved beyond recognition from their pre-1974 state. When the borders opened up a few years ago, many GCs saw their ancestral homes looking the same or better than their pre-1974 state. This was not always the case, but it does make the experience of seeing your old home all the more emotional after 30 years.

TC homes on the Greek side, on the other hand, have been left empty and in many cases have been allowed to dilapidate through neglect. When your average TC goes back to look at their homes in the South it just isn't the same.

I also feel for British retirees who have settled in Northern Cyprus in former Greek homes. They have been vilified in this forum but I don't think they are as calculating as some have made out. People fall in love with the out Island. especially before all the building madness started 5 years ago. That's why a there has always been a few die-hard tourists who have been prepared to brave the 6-hour flight to Ercan airport. They come for the friendliness, the peace... Not the Ayia Napa experience. Some like the Island so much that they decide to live there and buy homes from TCs who may disclose the fact that the home formally belonged to GCs. My understanding is that TCs justify this by claiming that they are the legal owners of the house because they have been compensated for their loss in the south. Whether this is right or wrong I don't think it's fair to put all the moral responsibility on the Brits. They have, in many ways been embroiled in the conflict and the fact that they're British brings up a lot of latent ant-British feeling even though they are many other nationalities doing the same thing. I'd be interested to see how many Austrians, Germans, Italians, or Israelis have brought property or are investing in former GC lands in the North.

[Viewpoint]

i have expressed many times that the strategy to solve the cyprus problem in court is not very wise.

on the case at hand, i believe that apostolides will win in the end.

Will win what? to have the Orams house in Hove sold off to pay the GC costs?

Have you for one minute thought about the mayhem this would cause in the UK it would not only put all British purchasers at risk but also Turkish Cypriots who have bought and used disputed land that have property in the UK. If this is what the GC side want then go for it but if it makes the situation worse dont start to cry but thats not what we wanted to do and blame all and sundry.

This is not the way to go about stopping the development in the north the only way is to reach an agreement with us in exchange for lifting of certain restrictions.

[MR-from-NG]

This case has exploded in the GCs face, whatever excuses and explanations are made by GCs itsnot what they wanted. The idea behind this case was to stop Brits buying villas in the TRNC. Well as I mentioned before this was always the risk of starting a case by case legal battle that is so high profile and could and has turned sour. To top it all part of legal costs of the Ormans have to be paid for by the GC.
Now with all this publicity and verdict where the Brits property in the UK cannot be siezed, add to this the new insurance to cover loss created by LLoyds and the TRNc Government guarantee, you have effectively single handedly encouraged many more investors to buy in the north, well done MR Coundanasssssss.


Your time and effort would have paid better dividends if your to have applied pressure on your leaders to address this issue directly rather than play silly buggers and blame all and sundry.

The way I see it is that Greek Cypriots voted overwhelmingly against the Annan Plan. Despite its flaws, it provided a means to settle land desputes on both sides. The Turkish community voted for the Plan. The Greek decision has allowed their half access to the EU while the TRNC languishes in its limbo state. Now Greek Cypriots want to reap the benefits of EU membership and get compensation for their properties in the North.

As a 37-year-old London Cypriot who has witnessed the unfolding drama or tragedy unfold over my lifetime I am staggered by the Greek Cypriot attitudes I have seen on this forum. You can't have it both ways. You have been wronged but it seems that the only acceptable solution for many Greeks is 1974 parity and that just isn't going to happen.

For reasons of economic necessity brought on by Greek intransigence, the Turkish Cypriot authorities have repopulated the north with Anatolians. Greek Cypriots talk about them as if they were a subspecies. There are now two generations of mainland Turks living in Cyprus. Some of them originate from other countries like Bulgaria, and view themselves as Turkish Cypriots. The ethnic make-up of the north has changed irrevocably. My friend Ibo lives in Ayios Sergios. His grandparents were Pontic Greeks who spoke Greek as a first language. His family openly talk of their Greek ancestry but are extremely nationalistic Turks. My point is that the minorities in Cyprus should not be viewed as an abstract inconvenience. They are a political and social reality.

Also, there is blase talk of repatriation of mainlanders. That is the kind of language I grew up listening to when the National Front marched through our London cities in the 1970s. Imagine telling our immigrants of two generations in England (many of them Turkish or Greek Cypriots) that they had less of a right to citizenship because of their race - How preposterous!

The Oram Case ruling, I hope will open the eyes of many Greek Cypriots to the political realities that exist in Cyprus today. The sight of teary eyed Greeks revisiting their ancestral homes is painful but doesn't help solve any of the problems of this deep and painful conflict

I congratulate Viewpoint and Kozza.

[cypezokyli]

i have expressed many times that the strategy to solve the cyprus problem in court is not very wise.

on the case at hand, i believe that apostolides will win in the end.

Will win what? to have the Orams house in Hove sold off to pay the GC costs?

Have you for one minute thought about the mayhem this would cause in the UK it would not only put all British purchasers at risk but also Turkish Cypriots who have bought and used disputed land that have property in the UK. If this is what the GC side want then go for it but if it makes the situation worse dont start to cry but thats not what we wanted to do and blame all and sundry.

This is not the way to go about stopping the development in the north the only way is to reach an agreement with us in exchange for lifting of certain restrictions.

vp, did you read what i wrote above ?

it is not yet clear what concequences any decision the court might take will have on the cyprus problem and the two communities. it is not even clear if it will stop, the selling of gc properties to foreigners.

the only way to stop this development, is an agreed solution, but the latest attempts for negotiations are showing that talat is no better than papadopoulos. the alleged will from talat to negotiate proved to be a bubble, that is directly connected to the turkish elections and the turkish accession procedure till the end of the year. add tpap to the equation and tell me how many choises a private individual has to protect his property. (dont forget that a number of the most important legal battles that the gcs have won concerning the cyppro, were not initiated from our "able" goverments but from individual people)

the mayhem that might cause is irrelevant to the agreemnts the UK signed. if it is part of the EU agreements to apply the rulings of the cypriot court (which were not challanged btw) then the UK will simply have to apply them. the case will inevitably end in the european courts , so expect another 10+ years of legal procedures. only after there is no other possiblity of appeal can any of the two sides claim "victory". in the meantime all the british (people and courts) might hope to avoid the "mayhem" as you call it, is that during all the expected delays and appeals we will in the meantime strike a deal.

moreoever you know all too well, that no tc will be be ever sued for practising what a british citizen is practising, for obvious reasons.