Cyprus-Forum.com

[turkcyp]

If I live in California, I can move to Dakota any time I want. And then I will vote as a Dakota resident. The same in UK. If I want I can move to a rural area.

Therefore the state does not descriminate against people in these cases since people are free to move around and make their choices.

So let’s get things straight. You are not against one vote counting more than the other, you are against one vote counting more than the other if there is a ethnic separation. Because all those restrictions are placed because there are two separate communities who simply do not trust each other. If they did, then there will be no need for those restrictions.

Not quite the same as Dakota and California huh? And in fact that is the main difference between these countries and Cyprus. In those countries everybody is either American, or English or whatever. In Cyprus there is not yet a one Cypriot nation.

When and if we can develop this nation of ‘Cypriots’ by slowly approaching each other, and by slowly understanding each other then there will be no need for those settlement restrictions, and nobody will be talking about Turkish vote counting more than Greek vote. I don’t know when will this happen. May be in 50 years.

Another point is that the USA has 52 states. A single state can not block anything. This is why I asked another time if you accept Armenians, Maronites and Latins to have political equality as well.

You know what I said to this extra states idea before Piratis. My family and I would like to form a state as well if it is appropriate. LOL.

[magikthrill]

i think what piratis does not agree with is the fact that 18% of the polulation should have the right to control 50% of the political power. of course, as an advocate of free democracy myself, that's what i assume he thinks.

you know you should conduct an independent survey on free nations around the world and ask them what their opinion of a 20% minority sharing 50% of the power. you can use latinos and blacks in america arabs in israel.

do you have any idea what this survey would indicate???

[brother]

'NO' PLEASE BE KIND ENOUGH TO ENLIGHTEN US ALL.

[Piratis]

In those countries everybody is either American, or English or whatever. In Cyprus there is not yet a one Cypriot nation.

I disagree. In Cyprus everyone is Cypriot. And just like the US that they have African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Irish Americans etc, in Cyprus we have Turkish Cypriots, Greek Cypriots Armenian Cypriots etc.
And don't tell me that in the US there were never conflicts between these different groups. Conflicts between them exist even today, and if you go back some decades you will see conflicts much worst than what we had in Cyprus.

When and if we can develop this nation of ‘Cypriots’ by slowly approaching each other, and by slowly understanding each other then there will be no need for those settlement restrictions, and nobody will be talking about Turkish vote counting more than Greek vote.

Separation and discrimination are definitely not the way to create a pan-Cyprian identity. In the US they exactly removed segregation and discrimination in order to achieve what they achieved today, and not the other way around.

Do you honestly think that any group of people will voluntarily give up the privileges that got used of enjoying? Lets face it, true unity will never happen when one group is benefiting from separation.

As I said before I agree for a specific transitional period. Things can not change from one day to the next. But this transitional period should be defined (say 10-15-20 years) and it should promote unity by creating common interests between TCs and GCs.

You know what I said to this extra states idea before Piratis. My family and I would like to form a state as well if it is appropriate. LOL.

It sounds funny to you right? The problem is that this joke is not any funnier than the other similar jokes that we hear everyday from Turkey and the TC leadership. The only difference is that they have the power to impose this jokes. Other than this, both jokes are ridiculous to the exact same degree.

[MicAtCyp]

Also, are you claiming that Anan
plan no. 5 called for only 40 000 settlers to remain?

40,000 was the official number of settlers to
remain, plus dependants ... it is this plus that raises
the number. I am proposing here 25,000 plus dependants.

Wrong,wrong,wrong!!!

The Anan Plan allows the following groups of settlers to stay:
a)ALL of those who are here for more than 9 years, PLUS all their decendants,
b)PLUS all those who get citizenship by naturalisation,
c)PLUS 45,000 more including their dependants

In other words ALL settlers would eventually stay. The famous 45,000 number concerned ONLY that last group and even on that Talat cheated by not including any decentants in his 40K list.....

The matter was discussed here:
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=50


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It doesn't make sense to claim that for a TC a partition is better than "united federal Cyprus". I am not saying that it can not be more appealing, I am saying that it does not have to be.

Turkcyp I generally agree and respect very much your posts. What you wrote above presupposes good will. Before the referendum we had 2 and only 2 instances to check the good will of your leadership.
a) Talat was supposed to give the names of 1500 TCs who together with 3500 GCs would staff the Common state. ALL the names he gave were of TCs having top administrative government possitions ALREADY. In other words he wanted ALL his people to hold top administrative possitions in the common state
b) He was supposed to give a list of 45K settlers over and above the already "legalised" ones including their decendants. He gave a list of 40K (advertised it to be even less than the Anan Plan) but . . . . that list did not include any decendants!!!

In my opinion even if the Anan Plan was accepted by the GCs Turkey AND your leadership would break everything apart in no time. Two completely separate states in less than 6 months. ..

[metecyp]

In my opinion even if the Anan Plan was accepted by the GCs Turkey AND your leadership would break everything apart in no time. Two completely separate states in less than 6 months. ..

Now, that's a wild statement. You don't even know how much ordinary TCs look forward to living in a normal peaceful country. You don't know how much ordinary TCs suffer from the uncertainty of the current situation. There's no way that TCs would let everything collapse. TCs need a solution to survive and they would never break something that granted what they were looking for all these years (self-governance, peace, democracy, etc.).

[Alexandros Lordos]

I have already admitted my confusion over what the Annan Plan said about settlers. The number 40,000-45,000 stuck in my mind, but I was never aware of the "small print" which MicAtCyp mentions. If it is the way MicAtCyp says, then it is certainly outrageous.

I have always thought that it is not a problem for some settlers to stay in Cyprus after a solution, that somehow Cyprus could absorb them and gradually make them Cypriots. But to have over 100,000 staying? That is ridiculous, it's not about being humanitarian anymore.

Anyway, I apologise for my confusion/ignorance on this issue.

I think I might have asked this before, but could someone copy/paste here the part of the plan about settlers ? I really need to understand this issue better, before I proceed further with my research.

[brother]

He is just reflecting what he would do if they were in our shoes.

[turkcyp]

I have always thought that it is not a problem for some settlers to stay in Cyprus after a solution, that somehow Cyprus could absorb them and gradually make them Cypriots. But to have over 100,000 staying? That is ridiculous, it's not about being humanitarian anymore.

There is not even 100k settlers in Cyprus. I do not know how are you guys getting these numbers.

Maximum amount of settler in north rightnow is around 60k. An even that is an extreme scenario. Among them some should stay, and some should go. The level of some can be easily negotiated. It can be 25k, 45k or whatever.

But sayiong than 100k settler will stay in Cypus is the biggest distortion of the truth. Look from the angle. Every settler in the north rightnow has TRNC citizenship, end they get to vote every election. IF there were 100k settler in the north right now, then approximately half of teh TRNC parliment should have been settler. They even had their own party until 10 yeas ago, but they never achieved success with it.

Don't you think 100k is a lot of exagereation from the natioanlist GCs to make you think TCs are out their to get you.

[brother]

Its called GC propaganda, they lie and then believe their own lies, but i have changed my stance i say BRING MORE SETTLERS, let them live there forever.