Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

I have written few times in the past, that the acceptance of RoC into the EU was designed to keep Turkey out. Cyprus can do EU's dirty work for them, at the cost of a United Cyprus for Cypriots. But Turkey will get all the benefits from the EU, just as if she was a member, except, it will be as a friend. This will put Turkey in a very commanding position dealing with EU, without bowing to Brussels. Good work if you can get it, and Turkey will get it. If this happens, Cyprus's future will never look the same again, as it did in the past.

[Pyrpolizer]

There is nothing wrong with the structure of the AP which is a BBF

Perhaps you don’t know that Talat in the presense of Kambari even refused the concept of BBF and insisted on a confederation of 2 separate countries. In the end, yes he yielded just because the UN representative was present.

One issue we agreed on was the Central Bank issues and usage of the Cyprus Pound

You must be joking. We never agreed on that. In fact we never accepted the final provision of 2 Central Banks, which means two separate monetary policies.

Another issue we agreed on was the number of settlers that could remain (45. 000)

We never agreed on that either. This provision was set in the Anan Plan despite our objection that we cannot accept more than 35, 000 including those who got married with TCs and including their children. The Anan plan increased the number to 45. 000, your side excluded from that those who were married, and presented a list of 45. 000 excluding their children so the final number was actually in the range of 100. 000 +. So where did we agree? ? ? ?

I repeat: If what was included in the Anan Plan was actually agreed, then we HAD NO REASON TO REJECT IT.

Look Viewpoint let me summarise you the Anan Plan to realise that we can never accept such a solution:

Governing system: A loose confederation, not A BB Federation.
Ruling: Totally impersonal, weak, with no authority whatsoever to impose decisions. A stateless State of 6 ministers…, a horrible and extremely costly law making process, a whole army of public servants.
Properties: GCs lose most of their properties.
Returning of GCs to their homes: Only the Famagustians could possibly return, and some elderly in other villages who would die soon anyway.
Settlers: All settlers would stay, possibility of even more coming.
Mingling of populations: No chance
Uniting the Country: No, it will be two separate countries in the form of protectorates of Greece and Turkey.
Security and demilitarisation: Totally flawed for upto 6 years, just bearable after 14 years.
EU Aquis: Totally in contradiction, risk of even been expelled from eU.
UN resolutions: trashed.
Economy: Totally collapsing, both Component states budget would always be in serious debit. The Federal State could not have a chance in a million undertaking the housing and relocating provisions of the Anan Plan.
These from just a quick memory review.

The only thing we agreed on the Anan Plan was the basic philosophy of a BBF in which the TCs would be ruled by themselves in a true Federation. We disagreed on ALL details that would make this philosophy a solution, that’s why the Anan Plan was rejected.

1) I repeat why your side does not enlist the issues where you said we had agreed in the past and carry on from there? Do you understand that by setting down the Anan Plan issues as the basis of negotiations that would mean a give and take on just those issues alone? And the final result could be nothing different than THAT plan?
2) I said it before and I repeat: Denktash spent 32 years wanting partition. Will Talat spend us another 32 years wanting disguised partition like the Anan Plan? Well it’s upto you to consider this. Because in the meantime the ones who pay are you the TCs and we the GC refugees. If we the GC refugees could do something, we would do it already…. It is you the TCs who have to act because, you don’t know what the next trick Turkey will invent to get rid of all of you. Who knows maybe they will decide to send all the Kurds there to solve the Kurdish problem! And don’t tell me Talat will pass a new law for visas. They can replace Talat any time they want.

Turkey turning its back on the EU will only make your EU leverage useless but end your hopes of any settlement, how will you pressurise Turkey to compromise? she will have no incentive and you will have no solution. If you cannot see this then you are blind and need to realign your thoughts

We are not blind nor stupid. If we let Turkey go through without oblidging we definetely lose, and rest all our hopes on the final date of her actual EU accession which btw may never happen. So if we are to exploit Turkeys EU road - which I repeat, odds are that will not end up to anything than a stong special relation - then we must use our weapons right now. Turkeys road has to be blocked very soon.

You tend to believe that Turkey will lose interest for the EU. I tell you Turkey has no other option. I can explain this further if you want. Just look at my previous post regarding "OR" else option. Turkey owes too much money to the Americans, the Americans owe too much money to the European Banks, the Americans act as the World Police on behalf of Europe they would never let Turkey become another headache for the World police "by letting her persue other paths". Do you now understand why we are not blind nor stupid?

rather than maintaining your stance that she is your enemy

But Turkey IS our enemy, this comes from current facts in Cyprus. It is an occupying force!

Turkey ever got in the EU she would be the 2nd largest country with a lot of weight

And this is exactly the reason Turkey will never become a full member. Ask the French and the Germans for further details. She will just end with a special relation….

[Pyrpolizer]

Fathers who work hard to educate their children , provide a comfortable life for them , marry their daughters off and generally look after their families , a common trait in our Cypriot culture.
Believe my dear friend , they , our T/C compatriots , want exactly what we want . They frown upon injustices and criticize the wrong doers just as much as we do.

I know the terrible situation in which the TCs live in Miltiades. On one hand they feel protected by the Turkish army, on the other hand the Turkish Army is using them, and will not hesitate to turn them into targets once again, or use them any way they feel like to serve Turkey’s interests. We the Gcs cannot do anything about it, it is them who have to stand up and say : " Hey enough, step no further". I don’t know how much courage is needed for that, but if they stick united, I beleive they can do it.

On the matter of human character, would you believe that I saw signs of my own mother’s character and expressions in many TC women that I did not see in any GC woman? Hey if my own late MOTHER, was partly a "Tourkou" (=young Turkish woman) how can I ever say the Tcs are any different from us? In fact I noticed myself in many aspects the TCs are better compared to us e. g. they are more calm and rarely fire up so quickly as we do.

NB. I even met Turkish soldiers! They are young lads coming from Turkey, they are more afraid of their superiors, when you get near their outpost than yourself. I still laugh remembering the incident when I once lost my way, and some young Turkish soldiers appeared out of nowhere, quarelling with each other whether they would arrest us or not. Finally the leader a young surgent who could aaalmost speak 10 English words, noted me to leave before any officer sees us, ha, ha, ha. The boy was so desparate trying to explain me how to leave the area, he kept on repeating "solda", "solda", that’s how I learned "solda" means at the end of the road go "left".

: lol: : lol: : lol:

[Pyrpolizer]

Please tell us all what your shock was??

Everything! You name it.
I don’t want to elaborate on the negative ones, so here’s some pleasant shocks:

The house of my aunt was just a few Km outside Nicosia. The village is mostly inhabited by military officers, settlers, and very few TCs. Luckily my aunt’s house was inhabited by 2 elderly TCs. They both knew Greek. I was really shocked by the extreme kindness of those people. Despite his age, the old man spent his whole day under the hot sun cleaning the garden, tidying up everything, and making the place as nice as possible as if they were actually expecting us. They were so glad to see us, the old man went out and slayed a hen, and the the old woman cooked macaroni, almost forced us to join them for lunch… I realised the old man was trying to show us he kept the house with respect and was doing all he could to keep it in good condition. Very kind and respectful people….

Another incident that happened later: Our house was inside a military area. I could see it about 80 meters away, but there was barbed wire everywhere. I was standing there looking like an idiot, memories from my childhood started coming, I think tears started flowing. At some point I felt my brain clouding, in a second I would jump over the fence and run towards my house.I hear someone shouting in broken Greek: "Nooo don’t !". I turn back and see an old TC from a distance heading towards us. "Don’t go my son" he said …. "They are not going to catch you if you go, but what if they do?" he said. "But, I was not going to go…" I said . "Hade re, who you think you are kitting? You would jump over in a second…" he said. Anyway he was also a very kind man, we started talking etc he was also a refugee from some village in Limassol….He did not hesitate a second to tell me straight they want all the "yurukkies" (=Mainland Turks) to go way and everybody to live together again.

After meeting those TCs and a few others I thought: Are these the people, they were harassing and killing in the 60s? Shame…

NB. I never had the chance to meet TCs ever before in my life.

[MR-from-NG]

Very touching story Pyrpolizer. You had the good sense to visit the north and had some first-hand experience with TC's. You judged them to be good people and felt the incidents of the 60's against these people were unjust. However, you are in the minority, most of your compatriots feel it would be criminal to cross over to the north. That is just plain hypocrisy.

[Plato]

Hi everyone, new forum member here so please be patient with me while I get the hang of things!

Mrfromng could you please explain how it 'is just plain hypocrisy' to not want to go to the north? Do you understand the sensitiveness of the situation? For many Greek Cypriots, this pseudostate has taken everything from them. Why would they want to visit it and open up old wounds, unless it was to re-claim their property? (or some other very good reason, of course).

[miltiades]

mrfromng , I , on principle stated many times that I would not be happy to go through passport control in order to visit Kyrenia , Famagusta etc.
I also said that in order to participate in a communal gathering that would engage in constructive discussions on our problems in Cyprus I would put that principle aside . Let me know when you or my dear friend Ahmet will be in Cyprus , will gladly meet you in Kyrenia , Limassol , Famagusta or Paphos.
Very much hope that Sadik (the voice of reason -really love this guy ), might be be able to join us along with Kifeas , Piratis and least but not last , Viewpoint along with Pyrpolizer and Bananiot .

[Natty]

Can't the ladies join the fun??

[miltiades]

Natty , provided you will share a bottle of wine with us boys you are more than welcome, and bring along Andry cy too !!
Natty I think you are a star !!

[Jim]

Pyrpolizer
Two very interesting and moving posts,

Being someone who has worked all over the world with people of many different nationalities and etnic groups (including Turkish) I have found generally we all have the same aims in life; to give our families a better future. We eat, we drink, we laugh together, we sympathise when one of these people have a tradgedy at home. Muslims are friends with Christians, Orthodox with Catholics etc. etc and the simple reason for this: NO Politicians around stirring up trouble for their own ends.

Jim