Cyprus-Forum.com

[Natty]

Hey Kalahari and Nicky!! Hope you had a great holiday Kalahari!! I can completely understand where your coming from, the vast majority of Cypriots that I've spoken to feel the same!! Lets just hope that the will of the ordinary, and most important may I add, people will eventually be made reality sometime in the near future...

Peace!!

[Pyrpolizer]

kalahari in just a few lines said things that we never heard from any TC in this forum.
So either all TCs in here live abroad, or the ones living in Cyprus represent the partitionists.

[kalahari]

Pyrpolizer makes a good point. But meeting the good people of Cyprus face to face, I was impressed by one salient characteristic. They are incredibly good natured about their past, stoical about their present and optimistic about their future. I learned a few home truths from the horses' mouths about the time of the invasions and I will discuss these with you when I have more time. The observation that most of the TCs on this forum must live abroad or be partitionists is one that Niki and I have already made. You see, we couldn't find any really nasty or angry Cypriots. Most of the people we met and talked to have friends or family on the other side of the exclusion zone and regularly pop over to see them. So where is all this bitterness and anger coming from? The one thing that everybody seemed to agree on was that the Turkish army had no right to be there and the sooner they got out and the island could get back to being the way it was again the better. Oh – and Makarios? Everybody we speak to thinks he was a complete git.

I don't know how much truth there is in this, but the opinion seemed to be that Cyprus is "run" by a number of "families" (10 was an oft quoted number) and the people of Cyprus just have to smile and put up with what they do.

Denktash – another git, who sold out the island to Turkey, general opinion.

Interestingly, Sampson – misunderstood and somewhat naive puppet of Makarios. Oh yes, thought that would surprise you. But I have one or two interesting stories to pass on.

But the overwhelming opinion of the Cypriot people that I bring back is that these are incredibly nice and patient people who can put up with one hell of a load of shit and keep smiling through. Very unpretentious people. Perhaps a little naive over some things, but that's probably having led a fairly sheltered existence for generations. Europe will knock that out of them fast enough.

Anybody know anything about these 10 families then?

Night all, love Kal.

[Natty]

Interestingly, Sampson – misunderstood and somewhat naive puppet of Makarios. Oh yes, thought that would surprise you. But I have one or two interesting stories to pass on.

Wow, I really can't believe that.....Makarios sure wasn't perfect, but the one thing that I 'respect' about him, was that he didn't want to play by the 'Anglo-American' book...(although I could be wrong)...but Sampson? I don't know, from what I can see, he was a pretty 'extreme' extremist...although again I could be wrong....It would be great to find out what you heard....

Peace!!

[miltiades]

Hi Natty , I have to disagree on your assessment of Makarios , first and foremost he should never have become the 1st President , bu I understand that at the time we did not have any other personalities to choose from and he was supported by EOKA and most Cypriots apart from AKEL.
The huge and massively catastrophic decisions he made were precisely the ones gaining your respect ie his refusal to play by the Anglo-American book as you say , and instead going down the road of forming alliances with nations that were utterly ineffective in providing Cyprus with any real benefits.
Had he agreed to the American request for a base in Cyprus who knows. He antagonised the Greek junda by over estimating their intelligence and under estimating their naked determination to oust him .
And he also had a beard !!

[Kifeas]

Hi Natty , I have to disagree on your assessment of Makarios , first and foremost he should never have become the 1st President , bu I understand that at the time we did not have any other personalities to choose from and he was supported by EOKA and most Cypriots apart from AKEL.
The huge and massively catastrophic decisions he made were precisely the ones gaining your respect ie his refusal to play by the Anglo-American book as you say , and instead going down the road of forming alliances with nations that were utterly ineffective in providing Cyprus with any real benefits.
Had he agreed to the American request for a base in Cyprus who knows. He antagonised the Greek junda by over estimating their intelligence and under estimating their naked determination to oust him .
And he also had a beard !!

Militiades, this "story" about Makarios refusing the Americans a base in Cyprus, and that is why they turned against him (even thought this is not so much the case either,) is a whole bunch of nonsense I often hear from many right wing extremists in Cyprus in their efford to alleviate the blame on them for supporting the Coup and the Eoka B' against Makarios, which resulted to the Turkish invasion. It is nonsense simply because such a proposal or a request on the part of the Americans has never existed and never was made, to have to be rejected by Makarios. Yet, I hear this little story every now and then from people that want to load all the blame for what happened in Cyprus on Makarios, for supposetly going against the Anglo-American interests in the region, when in fact this has never been the case. Makarios had never refused the Americans any facilities or services in Cyprus and this is what they themselves admit, including even the notorious Kissinger himself. For example, Makarios promptly gave them facilities during the 1960’s in Karavas village (which was later transferred in Makedonitissa, Lefkosia, after 1974,) for the establishment of the "Voice of America" regional installations.

What has only existed in relation to a base in Cyprus, was the famous US sponsored Acheson plan in 1964, which involved the granting of the entire Karpasia peninsula to Turkey as a military base, in exchange for union of Cyprus with Greece, and yes Makarios indeed refused to accept such a "deal" as it would have meant the future occupation of the an even larger part of Cyprus by Turkey, as he rightfully understood the hidden agendas of the Turkish side, in its pursue for a complete partition of the two communities and that of Cyprus on a territorial basis as well.

[Natty]

And he also had a beard !!

And a very long one at that! .. ......

Fair enough Miltiades, I guess different people have different opinions....I can't pretend to know too much as to what was happening with Makarios at that time...although I have heard of the Acheson plan, and I have to agree with Kifeas, in that, I believe, as far as I can tell, that he was right to refuse it.....

Peace!

[Simon]

Miltiades, what must be remembered is that Turkey's aim was always to partition Cyprus. The USA backed Turkey in this aim because they considered them very important strategically. Indeed, this policy is still being pursued today, albeit more subtly through the Annan Plan; which the USA and Turkey have explicitly stated that they refuse to give up on.

Therefore, is it any wonder that Makarios, not wanting to see his country partitoned, seeked a powerful ally for himself (USSR) to try to preserve Cyprus' sovereignty?

[kalahari]

Nevertheless, I didn't speak to one Cypriot with a good word to say about Makarios. The feeling, I found, was not so much that he refused the US a base, rather that he chose the wrong alliances – and disasterously so. His judgement in this was, can we agree, seriously flawed. My assessment of Makarios is that, despite his "beatification" and all the humility that this should bring, he was guilty of the sin of pride.

[Natty]

You know I didn't realise that the cold war affected Cyprus as well..well as much as it did....naively..