Cyprus-Forum.com

[simonwjones]

Lets all sell up and buy in Iceland!!!

[Kikapu]

Thanks for being so honest with the corruption within the Building Permit deparment in Cyprus. This is the kind of stuff that happens in third world countries, including Turkey, but I can't believe, after 2 years being in the EU, stuff like this still goes on. Usually, corruption is wide spread within the Government, if it exists in certain departments, there is a good chance it is everywhere. Unfortunately, when there is corruption within the Government, it spills down to businesses amongst the citizens, down to common people in some way or form. It's time to root these people out from their positions. It requires a strong leadership from the President, for this to happen.

After reading more on the problems with buying and selling property, I thought I re-post my own post, which the main part was...If the Government officials are corrupt, then so will everything else below them down to common person. Does this mean Cyprus actually belongs to a 3rd world or to Europe.??????

[simonwjones]

We will be coming over to have a good look for ourselves, but it's always useful to hear others' stories. Would you recommend the developer you bought from?

I wouldn't bother.. Cyyprus is full of crooks, bent conmen and dishonest developers. Keep your money!

[nhowarth]

Hi Kikapu,

To be fair, you’ll find some degree of corruption in all countries and in all governments. If you dangle a carrot in front of some people, they’ll grab it.

And of course corruption permeates below them to the common person. Have you never paid for something in cash to get a discount? Perhaps you’ve had your windows or swimming pool cleaned or the grass in your garden cut, or perhaps some rubbish taken away?

I feel the main issue in Cyprus is not so much corruption, but the law, which in my opinion is wholly inadequate.

For example:

By law, new properties have a lifetime guarantee for major structural problems (however you have to prove negligence).

I have just been reading a contract sent to me by a prospective buyer that says in the ‘Limitation of Liability’ section: “The Sellers shall also be liable for a period of ten years for any structural defect of the Property.”

If the buyer were to agree to this, he’d be signing away his rights to a lifetime guarantee! There’s nothing illegal in this, it’s just fancy footwork on the part of the developer to get around the law.

Another thing some developers do is set up small ‘independent’ companies for each of their developments. As soon as the developments been finished and the buyers have received their Title Deeds, the small company that built the development is closed down and ceases to exist. If, at some later date, the buyers find they have major structural problems with their properties, there’s no way they can take a company that no longer exists to court for negligence.

And the other ‘benefit’ to the developer in setting up these small companies is that they can contain any financial loss to within that company. So if the company goes belly-up, the unfortunate buyers will be unable to get their money back.

What the property developers are doing is unethical & unprofessional, but they are not acting illegally or corruptly. They are merely using the system to their advantage.

Regards,

[Kikapu]

Hi Kikapu,

To be fair, you’ll find some degree of corruption in all countries and in all governments. If you dangle a carrot in front of some people, they’ll grab it.

And of course corruption permeates below them to the common person. Have you never paid for something in cash to get a discount? Perhaps you’ve had your windows or swimming pool cleaned or the grass in your garden cut, or perhaps some rubbish taken away?

I feel the main issue in Cyprus is not so much corruption, but the law, which in my opinion is wholly inadequate.

For example:

By law, new properties have a lifetime guarantee for major structural problems (however you have to prove negligence).

I have just been reading a contract sent to me by a prospective buyer that says in the ‘Limitation of Liability’ section: “The Sellers shall also be liable for a period of ten years for any structural defect of the Property.”

If the buyer were to agree to this, he’d be signing away his rights to a lifetime guarantee! There’s nothing illegal in this, it’s just fancy footwork on the part of the developer to get around the law.

Another thing some developers do is set up small ‘independent’ companies for each of their developments. As soon as the developments been finished and the buyers have received their Title Deeds, the small company that built the development is closed down and ceases to exist. If, at some later date, the buyers find they have major structural problems with their properties, there’s no way they can take a company that no longer exists to court for negligence.

And the other ‘benefit’ to the developer in setting up these small companies is that they can contain any financial loss to within that company. So if the company goes belly-up, the unfortunate buyers will be unable to get their money back.

What the property developers are doing is unethical & unprofessional, but they are not acting illegally or corruptly. They are merely using the system to their advantage.

Regards,

Here's the problem. If I'm paying someone cash to cut my grass, this is not corruption. If the person who is cutting my grass for cash and fails to report it as an income, so that he can pay his fair share of taxes to the government, may be considered cheating the system, but still I would not call it corruption. If a taxi driver charges a tourist to go from A to B £100 Pounds, when he only charges £20 Pounds to a local, I would call that corruption. If a cop takes £50 Pounds to let you off for traffic violation, that is corruption. If the developers are taking your money, and does not deliver the goods, knowing the law won't touch him for cheating you, because the law makers are taking money from the developers, that is corruption.

The fact that the developers are just using the laws to cheat people, must have had some influence with the law makers, by making donations to them directly or indirectly, and this is corruption, so the government official are corrupt, in order to let the developers do what ever the hell they want. You're right, this does go on everywhere, where the law makers are "bought" for big favours, but only in 3rd world countries that the honest citizen is taken advantage of, and he has no help from the law to get his money back. It appears to be the case in Cyprus, where they are playing "shell game" with the citizens, while the government is looking the other way.

[andri_cy]

I agree with Kikapu wholeheartedly.

[Hazza]

Can the EU beaurocrats in Brussels not step in and investigate the alleged corruption/loopholes? Is there not an EU law on what can and cant be done regarding properties?

[nhowarth]

Hi Hazza,

> Can the EU beaurocrats in Brussels not step in and investigate the alleged corruption/loopholes? Is there not an EU law on what can and can’t be done regarding properties?

Earlier this year, I met Markos Kyprianou, the EU Commissioner for Health & Consumer Protection. I gave him a letter outlining some of my concerns – addressing them from the consumer protection perspective. To summarise his reply:

“There is no particular European consumer legislation governing the sale of property on mortgaged land, or the sale of property that has been constructed without the required planning permissions. Nor is there any European legislation governing the timing of the transfer of legal ownership. The legislation governing the sale of immovable property is therefore largely a matter of national law”

But there are a number of EU directives protecting the consumer from financial loss including 84/450/EEC (amended by 97/55/EC) concerning misleading advertising contracts; 93/13/EEC concerning unfair terms in consumer contracts; 2005/29/EC on unfair business-to-consumer commercial practices. You can find these at http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/cons_int/ ... dex_en.htm

He went on to say:

“I draw your attention to the fact that it is for the national authorities to enforce the law applicable in the relevant country, including the provisions originating in Community law, and to take appropriate action. The Commission can intervene against Member States should it become aware that they do not properly apply Community Law.”

And advised me that there is the:

European Consumer Centre of Cyprus
Director: Phrosso Hadjiluka
c/o Competition & Consumers Protection Service (CCPS)
6, Andreas Araousos
1421 Nicosia
Tel: 22 867100
Fax: 22 375120

As for the loopholes, I’m sure the Government could close these if it so wished.

And believe it or not there standard forms of construction contracts are widely used in Cyprus; I used one for to build my house.

They are published by ΜΕΔΣΚ - Μικτή Επιτροπή Δομικών Συμβολαίων Κύπρου (The Joint Committee of Architects, Engineers, Quantity Surveyors and Building Contractors of Cyprus).

Why on earth can’t one of these standard contracts be adapted for use by people buying from a property developer. As well as ridding the industry of the cowboys, it would improve Cyprus’ tarnished reputation and help promote further property sales.

Regards,

[dizey]

Crikey, what have I started!! There must be some honest, trustworthy developers out there who build quality and don't try to fiddle you......or am I being totally niave?

[simonwjones]

Crikey, what have I started!! There must be some honest, trustworthy developers out there who build quality and don't try to fiddle you......or am I being totally niave?

Dizey, if you goto Fopdac.com, like we have done I am sure you will ok. These guys are legit agents/developers are you are safer buying from someone on their list than not on list.

Not mentioning any names, but there a couple of replies from someone who sells apartments/villas and he shouldn't - buying from guys like these you are asking for trouble - he also knows who is he. We have bought in Pissouri and can not wait for the place to be built


This will be the view from our apartment.