Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

….at least by name, be contrarious to the actual demographics. In this case the 'TRNC' would be de facto a GTRNC or as I prefer to call it: GCTCC (GreekCypriot Turkish Cypriot Republic of Cyprus and for abbreviation purposes "Unified Republic of Cyprus". ….

Aman re Protagoriane, please show some mercy.
Is this the way the ancient philosopher Protagoras talked? Man I read your post 3 times trying to understand, and yet I am not sure I did.

Anyway at least the above extract is very well presented, in a philosophical logic like manner, well done.

[Pyrpolizer]

The momentum for partition is gaining ground as we speak……. your politics should be to show TCs that they would be much better of working and building a united Cyprus with GCs than continuing with Turkey…..

It’s just a momentum or a tendency. Such things change every easily. FYI the highest momentum was in 1983 when Denktash declared the pseudo. It then declined…

You talk about our policies that don’t convince you a United Cyprus is better for you.
1)First:I believe it’s upto you to judge whether a united Cyprus is better for you than continuing with Turkey. Imo even the worse case scenario of living as a simple minority with no political rights is better than get absorbed by Turkey.
2)Second: What are YOUR policies to convince the GCs want to re-unite with you?Selling their properties to the crooks?

[Kifeas]

Imho opinion if the TRNC were to stay in place many GCs would opt for a financial settlement rather than return to property located in the north and live under TRNC duristiction. This would in turn increase the TC land ownership level to higher than now discussed of 18% add to this the return of a certain % of GCs I feel we would be a recognized state of around 25%-29% of the island. This would give the "RoC" 12%-8% of land return and allow the Gcs to continue with the "RoC" as a purely GC country and in its current form with no TC intervention and fears that we would hinder the functioning of a united Cyprus. It would all us our own recognized state the TRNC.

Sounds good to me what do you guys think?? Shall we sign tomorrow?

NEVER!

And if the above vulgar ideas or thoughts reflect also your community leadership's ones, then you should expect an all front push out attack, on every single night from now on!

[Viewpoint]

So VP you would prefer to become part of Turkey and lose your Cypriot identity than be a minority in an EU Cypriot State. Partition would almost certainly mean that neither Turkey or TRNC ever join the EU

So? whats your point, the world doesnt stop revolving because you are not in the EU. The alternative is to be assimilated into the larger GC population and just become another minority who has to fight for it rights every step of the way. No thanks.

[Viewpoint]

The momentum for partition is gaining ground as we speak……. your politics should be to show TCs that they would be much better of working and building a united Cyprus with GCs than continuing with Turkey…..

It’s just a momentum or a tendency. Such things change every easily. FYI the highest momentum was in 1983 when Denktash declared the pseudo. It then declined…

You talk about our policies that don’t convince you a United Cyprus is better for you.
1)First:I believe it’s upto you to judge whether a united Cyprus is better for you than continuing with Turkey. Imo even the worse case scenario of living as a simple minority with no political rights is better than get absorbed by Turkey.
2)Second: What are YOUR policies to convince the GCs want to re-unite with you?Selling their properties to the crooks?

1) I respect your decision but experience tells us to date its better to stick with Turkey even under embargoes we have been and are doing OK. I know this is not what you want to hear you would rather we beg you to take us back, dont hold your breath aint gonna happen.

2) opening the borders
getting rid of Denktas
electing Talat
saying yes to the only reunification plan that was put before us
building a bridge
alloing usage of Churches
opening a GC school come to mind

Can I have yours???

[Alexis]

Any alternative to the TRNC has to be better than the TRNC we have today and the GCs have to realize that unless somethign better is put before us we will continue as we are for as long as it takes.

Vp,

The same goes the other way round. That's why a compromise is required. The reason there is a Cyprus problem is that the TC community could not gain an autonomous state without this impacting the GC community. Similarly the GC community could not gain an autonomous GC state without impacting the TC community. So, there are two ways out, either agreed partition or unification where we try and make a go of it. I am of the opinion that agreeing to partition is going to be just as hard as negotiating a comprehensive settlement to unify the island. In addition I believe a partitioned island is weaker than a unified one and in fact will not necessarily solve the problem in the long term as the two sides of the island will continue to be opposed to each other due to the resentment caused by an agreed partition. This logic says to me that Cyprus would be better off united.

Alexis how long will it take for people to realize that we are incapable of unity in the fashion you dream of one nation one people GC majority rule and TC minority rights 10 50 100 years??? what do you think?

I understand your stance vp, so don't get me wrong but it doesn't have to be GC majority rule there are plenty of methods that can be used to prevent the majority rule. It's whether we want it or not.
Even if you are right and neither side really wants it, that's fine the problem is agreeing how we are going to partition. You have been quite clear in what the TC stance to re-unification is, so let me be clear here what the GC stance towards partition would be. The GC community will not simply accept the plan for partition you outlined for the simple reason that their stance has always been for a unified Cyprus. They will push overwhelmingly for an 80:20 land solution as outlined by quite a number of GCs on this forum. My belief is that agreeing a partition will be every bit as futile as negotiating a comprehensive settlement based around unification.

[Viewpoint]

Imho opinion if the TRNC were to stay in place many GCs would opt for a financial settlement rather than return to property located in the north and live under TRNC duristiction. This would in turn increase the TC land ownership level to higher than now discussed of 18% add to this the return of a certain % of GCs I feel we would be a recognized state of around 25%-29% of the island. This would give the "RoC" 12%-8% of land return and allow the Gcs to continue with the "RoC" as a purely GC country and in its current form with no TC intervention and fears that we would hinder the functioning of a united Cyprus. It would all us our own recognized state the TRNC.

Sounds good to me what do you guys think?? Shall we sign tomorrow?

NEVER!

And if the above vulgar ideas or thoughts reflect also your community leadership's ones, then you should expect an all front push out attack, on every single night from now on!

Thats real frightening , we wont be able to sleep now especially knowing you are going to the gym and taking shooting lessons you can shoot my niece whos 6 years old at point blank range, that would make you a national hero, well done Kifeas.

[Viewpoint]

Alexis

I am of the opinion that agreeing to partition is going to be just as hard as negotiating a comprehensive settlement to unify the island. In addition I believe a partitioned island is weaker than a unified one and in fact will not necessarily solve the problem in the long term as the two sides of the island will continue to be opposed to each other due to the resentment caused by an agreed partition. This logic says to me that Cyprus would be better off united.

Why? a clean break where we will be 2 good neighbours could even encourge stronger ties and working relations over time building trust and confidence. Forced union will only end up diasterously and worse than we are now.
The only problem with agreeing partition is the amount of land that will be returned to the GCs and the amount of compensation to be paid to Gcs for lost property if a clean breal is desired. I personally do not have a problem with GCs wanting to reside in the TRNC under our laws with us.

understand your stance vp, so don't get me wrong but it doesn't have to be GC majority rule there are plenty of methods that can be used to prevent the majority rule.

Try explaining that to people like Piratis, they just do not understand or comprehend this fact so the only other alternative is partition.

The GC community will not simply accept the plan for partition you outlined for the simple reason that their stance has always been for a unified Cyprus. They will push overwhelmingly for an 80:20 land solution as outlined by quite a number of GCs on this forum. My belief is that agreeing a partition will be every bit as futile as negotiating a comprehensive settlement based around unification.

Im pretty confident that it would be much simpler agreeing land return than a federal structure where GCs would want to dominate and have majority rule and TCs would fear being reduced to an insignificant minority.

[Kifeas]

VP, let me ask you something. Why isn't the leadership of your community adopting your above suggestions, and instead they claim to be ready for a re-unification settlement, and they even sign agreements towards this direction with the GC side, in the UN presence, like the last example with Talat, Papadopoulos and Gambari?

Who else are you representing from the TC community, apart from your own self of course? Why is the current leadership of your community having such a different view from you?

[Kikapu]

[Thats real frightening , we wont be able to sleep now especially knowing you are going to the gym and taking shooting lessons you can shoot my niece whos 6 years old at point blank range, that would make you a national hero, well done Kifeas.

Viewpoint,

Please, there's nothing to gain here by placing a gun in Kifeas's hand to shoot your niece. I don't believe he is cold blooded killer that you make him out to be. He was only refering to, attacking you or TC's on the FORUM. Have you read the power sharing proposal Kifeas has put together, which I have twice in the last three days re-posted it, in which no one has challanged it, so I assume who ever has read it, must like it.