Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Piratis

So you should be asking TCs (e.g. Viewpoint) if he accepts that proposal.

I did state that on face value it would appear acceptable

I hereby withdraw my proposal and I ask all of you to consider it as a non-paper and void, because for Viewpoint to agree with it there must be something inherently wrong with it that I haven't seen before.

Or, perhaps you're more gifted than you think, in order for Viewpoint to agree with you, so don't stop there, and make proposals as to how we can all trust each other, because, at the end of the day, that is more important than anything else. We may never forget past events, but we can build on trust. So, get to work, after you finish beating up Piratis.!!!

[miltiades]

I don't have a solution, but I do admire the problem.

Here is a joke (much funnier than Kifeas's last joke )

3 blonds stranded on an island.

Suddenly a fairy appears and says I grant each one of you a wish.

First blond asks to be made intelligent.

Her wish granted she swims away.

Second blond asks to be made more intelligent than the first one.

Her wish granted she builds her self a boat and sails away.

Third blond asks to be made more intelligent than the first two.

The fairy grants her wish and makes her into KIFEAS .... He walks over the bridge .

[Sotos]

I think Kifeas proposal is acceptable! Maybe we should put it on referendum Now we solved that one, what about: Turkish settlers, refugees. land of each state, foreign troops, guarantees?

[miltiades]

It is not often that Im in the mood fo jokes but here is another one.

A G/C, a T/C and an Armenian Cypriot apply for the same job.

The interviewer calls in the G/C and asks "What do two plus two equal?" The G/C replies "Four." The interviewer asks "Four, exactly?" The G/C looks at the interviewer incredulously and says "Yes, four, exactly."

Then the interviewer calls in the T/C and asks the same question "What do two plus two equal?" The T/C says "On average, four - give or take 18 percent, but on average, four."

Then the interviewer calls in the Armenian Cypriot and poses the same question "What do two plus two equal?" The A/C gets up, locks the door, closes the shade, sits down next to the interviewer and says "What do you want it to equal?"

[Simon]

Kikapu says:

[quote]It's very simple. Absolute power corrupts, so for the benefit of the whole country, it is better to have checks and balances from both communities. Under normal conditions and situation, it could operate like any other Democratic country. The problem is, we have not earned each others trust yet, due to our very recent history together.[/quote]

Kikapu, this is clearly a contradiction. If you are not a minority group and therefore not a separate group at all, then you would not need these very separate powers! We can have checks and balances; but if you are separating and distinguishing the communities; then you have to accept that your community is a minority in Cyprus, simple as that.

As a way of compromise, I would accept Kifeas' Plan.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu says:

It's very simple. Absolute power corrupts, so for the benefit of the whole country, it is better to have checks and balances from both communities. Under normal conditions and situation, it could operate like any other Democratic country. The problem is, we have not earned each others trust yet, due to our very recent history together.

Kikapu, this is clearly a contradiction. If you are not a minority group and therefore not a separate group at all, then you would not need these very separate powers! We can have checks and balances; but if you are separating and distinguishing the communities; then you have to accept that your community is a minority in Cyprus, simple as that.

As a way of compromise, I would accept Kifeas' Plan.

Simon,

TC,s are a minority, but only in numbers and not a minority as a citizens of Cyprus, so that's why they reject to be protected only with "minority rights". Since the TC's have been grouped together now, for the last 32 years, naturally, they have also become a community. Being a community should not make them just a "minority" without any rights to participate in the decision making of the peoples business by the government, because foremost, they are Cypriot Citizens, before anything else (not including the settlers).

In any case, why split hair. You agree with the "Kifeas Plan", so lets move onto other pressing matters that Soto raised couple of posts back. I really hope, that we all understand, that Cyprus problems is not an easy problem to solve. Not with a "Unity Cyprus" or a "Partition". Each have their own difficulties, if we spend to much time arguing on every little detail. At some point, we will have to accept the best possible solution to benefit maximum number of Cypriot citizens, and do the very best to the rest of the citizens, to normalize their lives, as soon as possible. There's no magic "silver bullet". It's no wonder that the "Annan Plan" was pages and pages long, and I expect, the next one will be just as long.

[Simon]

Kikapu says:

"TC,s are a minority, but only in numbers and not a minority as a citizens of Cyprus, so that's why they reject to be protected only with "minority rights". Since the TC's have been grouped together now, for the last 32 years, naturally, they have also become a community. Being a community should not make them just a "minority" without any rights to participate in the decision making of the peoples business by the government, because foremost, they are Cypriot Citizens, before anything else (not including the settlers)."

I'm glad that you finally agree with me that TCs are a minority. I have never said that they should not have equal rights as citizens and should not participate in decision-making.

Kikapu says:

"In any case, why split hair. You agree with the "Kifeas Plan", so lets move onto other pressing matters that Soto raised couple of posts back."

I was not splitting hair, but responding to TCs who claim that they are not a minority.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu says:

"I'm glad that you finally agree with me that TCs are a minority. I have never said that they should not have equal rights as citizens and should not participate in decision-making.

I was not splitting hair, but responding to TCs who claim that they are not a minority.

Simon,

As long as you understand the difference, that, the TC's are a minority to the GC's, only in "numbers" and not a minority as "Cypriot Citizen". I don't want you to refer to me as a minority, when I am no less Cypriot than any Greek Cypriot, despite the fact that, they are the majority in numbers.

If you put a GC and a TC persons up against the wall facing you, could you be able to say, one is a majority or a minority, or are they just simply two Cypriots. Now, if you add another three GC's next to the other GC, so you have total of 4 GC's and 1 TC, do you now only see a majority and a minority, or do you see 5 Cypriots. If you see the 4 GC's as a majority and the TC as a minority, how did the TC lose his "Cypriotness" within couple of minutes. So, the TC's are a minority, but only because of their numbers, and not as Citizens of Cyprus.

[Simon]

I do understand the difference and I agree with you on this. Indeed, I have repeatedly stated this in previous posts when pointing out that TCs are equally Cypriot citizens.

[miltiades]

SIMON WROTE:
""but if you are separating and distinguishing the communities; then you have to accept that your community is a minority in Cyprus, simple as that. ""

Simon , do you not see that you are the one predominantly who blatantly """are separating and distinguishing the communities ""

Do you not see that the exhibiting by the majority of Hellenistic tendencies is influencing the T/Cs to be even closer to Turkey ? What has to be seen and accepted by all is that unless Cypriots from both communities make an effort or at least recognise that in order to overcome the fundamental obstacles facing us , these obstacle must be removed or at least reduced to an insignificant proportions.

I hope you do not misinterpret my views , Im , as I said many times before , a Greek Cypriot just as you are , but first and foremost I'm a Cypriot. I'm not , and neither are you a Greek Greek , we share the language , religion , most but not all of our culture , geographically we are distant , where by with the T/Cs we share our culture , and we share the most important aspect which of course is Cyprus.

Ask your self , would a T/C trust you to make peace with or the Miltiades of this Island . And be honest.