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Turkish Cypriots are no more than a minority

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:06 am

Natty wrote:
Today the great majority of GCs would immediately reject enosis even if this was offered to them. This is a fact.


I completely agree!! Times have changed! Again, I have never heard any GC talk about enosis, amongst the majority (I can't speak for all GC's) I truly beleive that the idea is dead!

Peace :)


How can you be 100% certain, the idea is probably festering and is kept alive by a small number of GCs but given the opportunity it can be exploited by a mentality as displayed on this forum by certain individuals to a level where Enosis can yet again be a GC goal.
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Postby Kifeas » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:10 am

Issy1956 wrote: As much as I would like to see a solution and re-unification I just dont see how we are going to get there.


We can’t get there Issy, that’s for sure! We can’t get there as long as we and you allow poisonous off-spring snakes of Denktash’s “pantouranist” and anti-Greek Cypriot ideology, like Viewpoint, to roam freely and secrete their poison among you and us, without anyone daring to chop their head and throw it to the dogs. We can’t get there as long as we allow poisonous off-spring snakes of Grivas’ pro-enosis and anti-Turkish Cypriot ideology to roam freely among you and us and do the same.

Viewpoint is a Turkish Cypriot elitist opportunist that she and her family grew up and blossomed in the courtyards of Denktash’s establishment, and this is why she fights so hard to retain her privileges as one of the queens and princes of the regime. She fights hard to retain the illegitimate status she attained by being a fervent supporter of the regime’s policies, regardless of this having be done and continues to be done in the expense of the vast majority of TCs that remain isolated, underprivileged and impoverished, and regardless of this having been or continues to be done in the expense of 200,000 GCs that were striped off their homes and all their properties in the occupied north and they now live impoverished in refugee settlements in the south. Snakes like Viewpoint do not want re-unification and they favour and promote partition instead, because they have gotten used to live and enjoy a status that is based on separation and partition, and they simply do not want the status quo to change. They are probably people that got benefited and profited in various ways from the illegal exploitation of GC properties, and they fear that re-unification will bring them into a very difficult situation.

Snakes like Viewpoint are the reason not only why we will never have solution and re-unification, but most likely will also be the reason why we will have a war and bloodshed in Cyprus one day. Similar snakes among the GCs are bitten up and get kicked away like dirty dogs. Show me one such snake that is being permitted to come in these forums and was allowed to stay and secrete their anti-reunification or anti-Turkish Cypriot poison for more than a couple of days, before getting silenced by the rest of us. On the other hand, I hardly ever saw any TC challenging the snake that is called Viewpoint. You all seem to seat back and watch her to secrete her pro-partition, pro-Denktash, pro-status quo, pro-theft and looting and anti-GC poison, without anyone daring to tell her to shut up, even once!

Yes, it is true that as long as you allow pro-Denktash ideology snakes among your community, like Viewpoint, to roam freely and secrete their poison, and poison you and us with their manipulating, chauvinistic and opportunistic rhetoric; without crashing their heads; there is no hope for a solution! The same holds true for the similar snakes among the GCs.
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:27 am

Piratis
As usual you are saying nonsense with the only purpose of helping the partitionists of achieving their aim. Today the great majority of GCs would immediately reject enosis even if this was offered to them. This is a fact.


According to whom? has there been an independent study? opinions change all it takes is a few fanatics to whip up nationalism and the Hellen dream to unite and hey presto we are back to square one.

The enosis cause was abandoned in the 60s indeed because it was not feasible. This is why I always say that for TCs to abandon partition we should make such thing to them and to Turkey itself so costly that would make maintaining the illegalities infeasible.
We (human beings) are greedy by nature. We will try to get as much as we can and we will stop only were taking more is not possible. This is unfortunate but true.


Why dont GCs put their energy into creating such an attractive plan that TCs could not turn down? It would encourage TCs to kick Turkey out via UN and EU and work with GCs to build a united Cyprus. You all pay lip service but you take no positive actions to bring about such an offer.
feel free to take this action as soon as possible.

1) The one who is strong takes it all and therefore limits what the weak can take. This guarantees a never ending antagonism and struggle between the two communities that will garantee that the circle of blood will never end. A new war will brake out with every shift in the balance of power, and when there is no war a "cold war" will go on between the two sides making it impossible for Cyprus to progress. Thats a hell I don't want me or my children to live in.


Whos the weak and whos the strong here? the GCs are in far stronger position than the TCs, they have recognition and the economic benefits that go with that and the TCs have Land and the Army....I think you have pretty much everything you want only thing missing that you also want is the 37% of land, its not the TCs its the land you are after so you can be greedy and have everything.

) The greediness of both sides to be limited by universally accepted principles like the ones of democracy, human rights, the EU acquis etc, that will create equal Cypriot citizens instead of two conflicting groups. This way each Cypriot will get what proportionally belongs to him and this would limit the greediness of everybody simultaneously without having one gaining on the loss of another. This is the only way to create a truly one Cypriot nation and a long lasting peace.


How? whats the formula?

Just like GCs now got used to independence and do not want enosis anymore, if TCs are also forced to accept the compromise made in 1960 for one independent country then after some time they will get used of it as well and they will finally abandon their extremist maximalistic aims. In the end the TCs will gain so much from being citizens of a democratic EU country that will look in the past and wonder why the hell they wasted 32 years of being a 3rd world puppet state of Turkey.


How and who will "force" us against our own freewill? You really missed the boat about 1960 you should have realized you wanted an independent country with one people back then and not promote and support Enosis.

You have to put something more concrete on the table so people can believe a community that can so easily renege on agreements as you have in the past. GCs dont adhere to my word is my bond neither do their sign agreements they intend to keep, very dangerous partner to entrust your future to dont your think?

Piratis I have a question for you if we went back to 1960 agreements would you allow me to use my veto rights on everything? or would you object fiercely and produce something similar to the Akritas plan and present it to the EU in order to remove TCs influence in running the "RoC"?
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Postby bg_turk » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:35 am

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Postby bg_turk » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:49 am

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Postby Jerry » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:53 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Who adminsiters your human rights and democracy any one specific ethnic group? Is there a heavy split like 80% 20% in ethnic backrounds? Did any of the ethnic groups conquer Australia and live there for 300 years? Did you choose under your own freewill to give live in Australia under their laws or were you forced to do so? You are comparing apples with pears. I can agree that all individual citizens should be treated the same but how do we share the country? who runs it? who makes the decisions? and how do we ensure everyones rights are not abused?


There is a very simple answer to you last question VP. Since we all are in or want to become part of the EU the security and legislature of Cyprus should be handed over to the EU for a transitional period. The EHCR is already the highest court in the EU, it could establish a "branch" on the island. All military forces could be disbanded and control, training and supervision of the police could be handed over to the EU. The EU (not the UN) could make a start by opening and managing the ports in the north thus establishing its position as an honest broker.
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Postby miltiades » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:15 am

Kifeas wrote :
""Snakes like Viewpoint are the reason not only why we will never have solution and re-unification, but most likely will also be the reason why we will have a war and bloodshed in Cyprus one day"""

As far as VP is concerned , you refer to VP as a female , since I'm not certain that your not being vindictive in some way I will refer to VP as a male until corrected.

VP is by no means typical of the T/Cs' views on the G/Cs , he is grossly biased having been severely indoctrinated by the isolationist policies of the previous T/C leadership and I believe that VP would be quite happy to have a permanent partition with full recognition of the "TRNC" .On previous postings he made clear that he has no trust at all for his G/C countrymen , and he must realize that such views are an expression of the wish to remain divided .Until VP and those who share his views begin to come to terms with the current situation in the occupied part , some 50% of T/Cs have left the island emigrating for a better life , those remaining are mostly employed in "governmental " positions . mistrust of the settlers is widespread , British criminal elements are operating trouble free , standard of living is at a much lower level than of the G/Cs and there is no chance in hell of International recognition.
Vewpoint will sooner than later understand the concept of isolationism when it begins to sink in.After the referendum T/Cs were mislead into believing that their isolation was imminently coming to an end .Not so.

Kifeas , you are perhaps the most gifted of posties on this forum , you have a comprehensive knowledge of the Cyprus problem , but you disappoint immensely those of us who are continuing our efforts in all walks of life and in many Countries , to drum up support for our cause , the cause of a united Cyprus , a peaceful and a democratic Island , your talk of bloodshed to come is anathema to anyone dedicated to a peaceful solution. The fact of the matter is that you believe in war to put things right , where the vast majority of Cypriots believe in peaceful negotiations. YOU ARE SIR WRONG.
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:28 am

Jerry wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Who adminsiters your human rights and democracy any one specific ethnic group? Is there a heavy split like 80% 20% in ethnic backrounds? Did any of the ethnic groups conquer Australia and live there for 300 years? Did you choose under your own freewill to give live in Australia under their laws or were you forced to do so? You are comparing apples with pears. I can agree that all individual citizens should be treated the same but how do we share the country? who runs it? who makes the decisions? and how do we ensure everyones rights are not abused?


There is a very simple answer to you last question VP. Since we all are in or want to become part of the EU the security and legislature of Cyprus should be handed over to the EU for a transitional period. The EHCR is already the highest court in the EU, it could establish a "branch" on the island. All military forces could be disbanded and control, training and supervision of the police could be handed over to the EU. The EU (not the UN) could make a start by opening and managing the ports in the north thus establishing its position as an honest broker.


What are you saying? hand everything over to the EU, they just dont have the mechanism or the will to take on such a task.
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:44 am

miltiades
As far as VP is concerned , you refer to VP as a female , since I'm not certain that your not being vindictive in some way I will refer to VP as a male until corrected.


You are correct Kifeas refers to me as she to be vindictive, thats how his brain works so I yet again for the record confirm I am male....

VP is by no means typical of the T/Cs' views on the G/Cs , he is grossly biased having been severely indoctrinated by the isolationist policies of the previous T/C leadership


You would be very suprised, you know the TC mentality they are too polite and do not always reveal what they truly believe until they are forced to do so. I do not what indoctrinated by the isolationist policies of the previous T/C leadership you refer to but I do value my life and freedom not to live in a GC dominated state.

I believe that VP would be quite happy to have a permanent partition with full recognition of the "TRNC" .On previous postings he made clear that he has no trust at all for his G/C countrymen , and he must realize that such views are an expression of the wish to remain divided .


Totally correct. Feel free to take measures that will prove me wrong.

Until VP and those who share his views begin to come to terms with the current situation in the occupied part , some 50% of T/Cs have left the island emigrating for a better life , those remaining are mostly employed in "governmental " positions . mistrust of the settlers is widespread , British criminal elements are operating trouble free , standard of living is at a much lower level than of the G/Cs and there is no chance in hell of International recognition.


There was no chance of partition in the 1960s but look what happened never say never it has a habit of creep up on you just when you least expect it.
The internal affairs of France, Jamaica and Korea dont concern you why should ours. People are free to live anywhere they wish we do not stop them from going to live abroad: We also have many people returning from abroad to settle in the TRNC, including the British.
Remove your isoaltiaon grip and you will see whos economy and standrad of living is better is that what you are afraid off? or is that we wont want to unite?

Vewpoint will sooner than later understand the concept of isolationism when it begins to sink in.After the referendum T/Cs were mislead into believing that their isolation was imminently coming to an end .Not so.


Been 46 years miltiades, when will it sink in as you say? We are well aware of the restrictions we live under but we are still here and kicking and closer to Turkey more than ever, this shoudl really concerns you as the closer we bond with them the further away we move from GCs.

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Postby Kifeas » Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:10 am

miltiades wrote:Kifeas wrote :
""Snakes like Viewpoint are the reason not only why we will never have solution and re-unification, but most likely will also be the reason why we will have a war and bloodshed in Cyprus one day"""

As far as VP is concerned , you refer to VP as a female , since I'm not certain that your not being vindictive in some way I will refer to VP as a male until corrected.

VP is by no means typical of the T/Cs' views on the G/Cs , he is grossly biased having been severely indoctrinated by the isolationist policies of the previous T/C leadership and I believe that VP would be quite happy to have a permanent partition with full recognition of the "TRNC" .On previous postings he made clear that he has no trust at all for his G/C countrymen , and he must realize that such views are an expression of the wish to remain divided .Until VP and those who share his views begin to come to terms with the current situation in the occupied part , some 50% of T/Cs have left the island emigrating for a better life , those remaining are mostly employed in "governmental " positions . mistrust of the settlers is widespread , British criminal elements are operating trouble free , standard of living is at a much lower level than of the G/Cs and there is no chance in hell of International recognition.
Vewpoint will sooner than later understand the concept of isolationism when it begins to sink in.After the referendum T/Cs were mislead into believing that their isolation was imminently coming to an end .Not so.

Kifeas , you are perhaps the most gifted of posties on this forum , you have a comprehensive knowledge of the Cyprus problem , but you disappoint immensely those of us who are continuing our efforts in all walks of life and in many Countries , to drum up support for our cause , the cause of a united Cyprus , a peaceful and a democratic Island , your talk of bloodshed to come is anathema to anyone dedicated to a peaceful solution. The fact of the matter is that you believe in war to put things right , where the vast majority of Cypriots believe in peaceful negotiations. YOU ARE SIR WRONG.


No Sir, I am not wrong! It is you that is wrong!

You are wrong on two grounds.

You are wrong in naively assuming or hypothesizing that poisonous snakes like viewpoint are saying and preaching what they do, simply because they were incidentally and passively indoctrinated, brainwashed and manipulated not to trust the GCs and thus to favor and promote partition due to their isolation. You naively believe that these snakes are doing so simply because they are victims of the circumstances and their naïve and biased upbringing. Wrong! Snakes like Viewpoint and her likes are probably more clever and intelligent than both you and me and most others in here. They are saying and preaching all they do, not because of their insecurities and biased indoctrination, but rather they use instead in a very calculated way the above excuses in order to manipulate and victimize others, like you and me and other GCs and TCs alike, so that they deliberately kill any and all prospects of solution and re-unification. They do so because they are consciously self-recruited in the cause of partition, simply because this is how their illegitimate, opportunistic and egoistic interests are best served. They do not do so because they are somehow psychologically influenced not to trust or to feel insecure within the environment of a potentially re-unified Cyprus, but instead they use the above “reasons” because that is how their interests are best served.

You are also wrong on the assumption that because I speak about a war and bloodshed, this is also what I envision and prefer as the means to a solution. I speak about a war and bloodshed simply because I am afraid that in the end this is the only option that will be left for us in this country, should poisonous pro-Denktash ideology snakes like viewpoint are left to freely roam and spread their deliberate poisonous propaganda campaigns among both GCs and TCs, and thus manage in the end to destroy all the prospects for a peaceful solution of the Cyprus problem. I am saying so because I know that the GCs will never stay still and allow or see 37% of their thousands of years historical, lawful and legitimate homeland and the usurping of our homes, villages, historical and cultural landmarks and properties to permanently slip away without in the end having to fight for them. I am saying so not because this is what I prefer, or because this is the best way, or because I want to take revenge, or because I hate the TCs; but because I am afraid this will remain as the only option to have to consider.

As for the “she” and /or the “he” when referring to the snake, this is all nonsense! The reason I use the “she” is not because of any sexist inclinations, but simply because I have very valid reasons to believe that it’s a “she!” If she is in such a denial of her own sex identity, and she instead wants me to call her a “he,” I have no problem to be doing so from now on! I do not see why or how one can be vindictive by referring to someone as a female instead of a male, or vice versa! For me there is absolutely no difference! There are female snakes that are more poisonous than male snakes, as well as male snakes that are more poisonous than female snakes! In the end of the day, it is all down to how poisonous a snake can be, and not whether it is a male or a female one.
Last edited by Kifeas on Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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