Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint,
yes I beleive your view for partition is due to long past and present cultivated disorientation. Sorry if that's diminishing ( i have no such intention ), but I don't know of any more suitable world. If you can provide me a better word I will use that one.

Surely this can also be applicable to yourself as you are a result of the Cyprus problem as well. You are unable to see that we will never reunites and yern for a solution which is not going to evolve as it is not desired by both sides. Sorry to be so negative but I have always been a realist.

[Piratis]

This has totally confused me, you want us to love you?

Love is good but not required. If you are racist and you can not love, live along, talk etc with somebody due to his race thats your problem.

What I want, what I actually demand, is respect to our human and democratic rights and the sovereignty of our country.
Refusing to show this kind of respect is criminal and illegal and you should expect that in return you will face the concequences of your illegal choices.

Respect is a prerequisite for trust, love or anything else. If there is no respect then a "cold war" is the best that can happen between us.

You can demand all you want this doesnt mean you will get, the current situation is a result of our own actions so we have to bear the consequences until a time we can trust each other again.

Respect =To take notice of; to regard with special attention; to regard as worthy of special consideration; hence, to care for; to heed.

Trust = Assured resting of the mind on the integrity, veracity, justice, friendship, or other sound principle, of another person; confidence; reliance; reliance.

If you take into account the above meanings of the words Respect and Trust you will see I can respect you but I dont have to trust you which I do not. This is my biggest problem with many GCs I do not trust their sincerity and do not feel they are genuine in their desire for a united Cyprus made up of 2 equal partners.

Definition of respect:

Respect is the objective, unbiased consideration and regard for the rights, values, beliefs and property of all people.

You have to show respect. Without showing the required respect then nothing (negotiations etc) will have any result because most of us (with a few exceptions - see my post above) do not have slave mentality.

If the base of our relationship is not respect and universally accepted principles such as democracy and human rights, then everything will be based on the balance of power, which now you think it suits you, but it will not always be this way.

[Piratis]

Why have you given up on Enosis because you couldnt enforce it and today you realize it was the wron gpath to take.

I agree. This is why I always say that you should be forced to abandon partition. Everything else (negotiations etc) are just a waste of time. Lets start by kicking Turkey out of her EU accession process and see their economy crashing. The aim should be to cause so much problems to Turkey and TCs that will make them realize that insisting on partition is the wrong path to take.

but partition has worked it has brought all Cypriots a peaceful exisistence.

Partition "worked" in the same way that ethnically cleansing TCs from Cyprus would "work" Would you support that kind of "peaceful exisistence" as well?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

So obviously the are many definitions to respect depending on which dictionary you use.

Doesnt respect have to be earned and maintained? we lost that respect for each other a longtime ago which culminated in 1974. In order to regain and show each other respect we have to build bridges and ensure we able to co-operate with with each if we believe in a united Cyprus. Otherwise you can demand respect until you are blue in the face if no one takes any notice then you wont get it.

If the base of our relationship is not respect and universally accepted principles such as democracy and human rights, then everything will be based on the balance of power, which now you think it suits you, but it will not always be this way

Play your power mind games Piratis they dont mean a thing until you have the power, if you are will to wait then be my guest and if you ever get that power use it to the full please dont hold back. (bomb my house first and kill me and my family)

I agree. This is why I always say that you should be forced to abandon partition. Everything else (negotiations etc) are just a waste of time. Lets start by kicking Turkey out of her EU accession process and see their economy crashing. The aim should be to cause so much problems to Turkey and TCs that will make them realize that insisting on partition is the wrong path to take.

All I can say is do your worst Piratis you have it in your mind to get vengence then feel free to do everything in your power.

Partition "worked" in the same way that ethnically cleansing TCs from Cyprus would "work" Would you support that kind of "peaceful exisistence" as well?

You are right that could work as well if you can make it happen but would it bring a peaceful existence to all of us Cypriots as it has to you and me in 2006?

[Viewpoint]

Issy, today, in year 2006, there is no enosis issue and there is no mainland Greek intention, desire and interest to hold or control Cyprus in any direct or indirect way, nor there is any such desire, intent or interest on the part of the GCs towards this direction. The issue of enosis is dead and buried by both Greece and the GCs, for a long time now! On the other hand, Turkey continues to want to have Cyprus -or part of it, under its control and domination, and the TCs are simply continuing to play the role of the facilitator and the carriage of these Turkish on going megalomaniac expansionist interests in Cyprus. I am speaking about the situation as it exists at present, or throughout all the most recent part of our history.

You are so hypocritical its unbelievable. The reason why Enosis is not alive today is because you were unable to enforce it, you were unsucessful in your realizing your dream and therefore you say you have abandoned this idea (which in reality is still festering in the south) The reason why Turkey is here is because you were greedy in wanting the whole island purely for GCs and thus provided a situation where intervention was necessary to bring about a peaceful existence which are enjoying today.

Whatever the reasons or the causes why enosis is abandoned are, it is practically irrelevant and only second to the fact that since 1968 the official GC position and policy was for an independed Cyprus, outside the domination of the "motherlands." The peace you think you are enjoying today is only the calmness before the storm, and little fascists creatures and worthless scum like yourself are the reason why there will be a new bloodshed in this country again! Go and cut your throat! This is the only good service you can offer to your community and to the Turkish nation in general!

Thank you for your kind words, this is only to expected. Your venom for vengence has once again been exposed and will fuel the fire for partition and reveal to all why we should not reunite with your warped mentality who in the past divided this island and to this day continue to maintain the divide between us. Thank you.

[miltiades]

Kifeas , your language is inflammatory and your prognosis of more bloodshed demagoguery , this is the language of war mongers and terrorists and advising VP to go and cut his throat is the ultimate in gutter threats .
You Sir owe him an apology , and if you have in mind to insult me , forget it !

You will also have noticed that VP has replied to your insults in a measured and civilized fashion.

[Pyrpolizer]

Time and the lack of progress will convince you

Will convince me of what? That there is less than one chance in a billion to have an agreed partition? As a political move it is absolutely impossible-no need to analyse and explain it once again in this forum.
As a de facto move depends 100% on the Turkish side. So the only way to convince me is to show me your side returning half the occupied areas. Can you show me such a move going on, or draftet to occur anytime soon in this century? If you can, then I will be convinced.


NB. OK propably as a GC I am also "conditioned" too to have hopes for a re-unification solution. However I was very clear initially to point out that I don't beleive this has many chances. However compared to "agreed partition" that has ZERO chance, I have to keep hopes for the former.

[Viewpoint]

Time and the lack of progress will convince you

Will convince me of what? That there is less than one chance in a billion to have an agreed partition? As a political move it is absolutely impossible-no need to analyse and explain it once again in this forum.
As a de facto move depends 100% on the Turkish side. So the only way to convince me is to show me your side returning half the occupied areas. Can you show me such a move going on, or draftet to occur anytime soon in this century? If you can, then I will be convinced.


NB. OK propably as a GC I am also "conditioned" too to have hopes for a re-unification solution. However I was very clear initially to point out that I don't beleive this has many chances. However compared to "agreed partition" that has ZERO chance, I have to keep hopes for the former.

Partition we have all thats missing is recognition so in reality we are much closer to agreed partition than we are reunification or a forced marriage.

[growuptcs]

miltiades what you say is right, but Pirates doesn't owe vp an apology. Anyone that talks about GC's getting third world country status in N.Cyprus should get attacked verbally. VP always gets GC's to the point of frustration because of his one sided approach to how he wants N.Cyprus molded, not a universal way to agree. He and many TC's feel the same way by LOOKING to get treated extra special in N.Cyprus. The only way they should get treated is like every other special person that wants to get noticed. Throw them in the special olympics.

[miltiades]

growuptcs , I was of course asking Kifeas to apologise for the comments directed at VP. I also have a very short fuse , I think all Cypriots do and Kifeas or VP are no exception.
I had the pleasure last evening of meeting for the first time mrfromng , one our Cypriot compatriots living in London , most of you know him from the forum. We met in South London Bar / Restaurant , he was kind enough to come to South London since I'm restricted by personal circumstances as to how far I travel.
I was not at all surprised to confirm what I already knew having spoken on the phone , that he is as much in love with Cyprus as I'm , that he is as much as I'm a Cypriot and considers his country to be Cyprus. I do have regular contact with T/Cs here in London , as stated earlier because of the nature of my business. Most want exactly what we want , a solution where they would feel safe in their own country and full members of the Cypriot society, a solution that is long lasting and a solution that guarantees the rights of all our citizens. We can not insist on a solution that can not be implemented and neither can it be dictated by force. The overwhelming majority of Cypriots feel isolated and consider Turkey their saviour. We have to begin the process of building bridges of trust , a process that has already started by the opening of the "borders " and by interacting with each other.
I'm convinced that if we showed a measure of good will reciprocation will follow, and vise verse.