Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Here is an extract from the "Unification " Annan Plan , dealing with roads in a "unified " Cyprus .

."""" The road connecting Pyrogi and Athienou is under the territorial administration of the Greek Cypriot {component state} for its entire length. The Turkish Cypriot {component state} shall be entitled to construct an underpass or overpass for access to Louroujina/Akincilar.

3. The Greek Cypriot {component state} shall be entitled to construct a road under its territorial administration between Kontea and Kalopsida, across the territory administered by the Turkish Cypriot {component state} south of Köüklia and to expropriate the necessary land in exchange for full and effective compensation, in cooperation with the Turkish Cypriot {component state}. The {component states} shall agree on the location of any necessary underpasses or overpasses to be built at the expense of the Greek Cypriot {component state}.

Applying to map A only:

4. The road connecting north Nicosia and Famagusta is under the territorial administration of the Turkish Cypriot {component state} for its entire length. The Greek Cypriot {component state} shall be entitled to construct three underpasses or overpasses for access to Pyrga, Stylloi and Egkomi """

Looking at the above , one could say that if a Turkish driver , in his own "unified" country wanted to travel to Louroujina , he would have to use the underpass or overpass in order that if cought speeding by a future camera , he would be dealt with by a T/C court.!!!!!

[Pyrpolizer]

.....

[Kikapu]

In order to avoid a "partition" as you see it, perhaps a 50-50 form of government is the best way to go, despite being out of the norm with most other Democracies.

Kikapu, is the so called “50:50 government” your own idea or term for a solution, or is it also the demand of the TC community?

How do you define a 50:50 government? Does it mean that if we have a cabinet of ministers, 5 will be TCs and 5 will be GCs? Will we also have two presidents, one TC and one GC? Will all the civil servants of the government be employed on a 50:50 basis? Will the parliament have 50% of TCs and 50% of TCs? How do you understand such a 50:50 government?

Kifeas,

The above is my own idea for the Cyprus solution, since I do not live in Cyprus or have any contact with any political figures. If I had lived in Cyprus, I believe, I could live with the following agreements, to protect the minority( TC's ) from any political and security concerns they may have.

The 50-50 will only apply to members who will be in charge of the legislation to make laws and pass laws, and if we take the USA example, there would be 50%-50% in the Senate and 50%-50% in the Congress, regardless of the population size for the TC's and GC's. Any law making or changing should require no less than 60% to pass in the Senate and a simple majority in the House ( Congress ). Each side will only need to convince 10 members from the other side to vote with them to pass or reject anything that comes in front of them. Surely they should be able to find 10 moderates from each side to pass any law that is good for the country.

The President can also be appointed by the legislators on a 60% passing vote, with the condition that, who ever is elected President, the vice President will be from the other side. If the President dies in office, then the vice President takes over, and then will take on another vice President from the other side. As far as government positions go, they can be based on proportion to the population, 80%-20%. Naturally, if the President wants to be able to work with the legislators, he would want to put some members from the other side into one or two cabinet positions. For example, if a TC is elected to be the President, the cabinet should maintain the 80%-20% proportionality. For the military, it should be open to who ever wants to join. Let the best person serve his / her country. Each side can employ how ever many police they want, since the cost will come out of their own budget. Each side can also have equal number of National Guard members, paid by the government for the citizens to feel extra secure for the short term ( 25 years ). After that time period, there should be enough trust built between the two sides, the National Guards can be dismantled.

This would be a good way to set the stage for "my" 50-50 solution for the government of Cyprus. It can be fine tuned by you guys ( TC's and GC's ) later on.!!

[Strahd]

The system you are proposing is not democracy. In democracy the majority rules, however this rule comes under the limits set by the Constitution.

Therefore it is the COnstitution that will offer the protection the minorities in Cyprus need, and that is to say you muslims of Cyprus are not the only minority. There are also others, why these people not to get a 50-50....

Well as you can see something like that will never work because it will only end up in more trouble.

The solution is one Accept that you are an ethnical minority of the people of Cyprus! Act like all minorities in democratic states! In other word Grow UP!

[Kikapu]

The system you are proposing is not democracy. In democracy the majority rules, however this rule comes under the limits set by the Constitution.

Therefore it is the COnstitution that will offer the protection the minorities in Cyprus need, and that is to say you muslims of Cyprus are not the only minority. There are also others, why these people not to get a 50-50....

Well as you can see something like that will never work because it will only end up in more trouble.

The solution is one Accept that you are an ethnical minority of the people of Cyprus! Act like all minorities in democratic states! In other word Grow UP!

That's all very well, except what you want is not producing a solution either, and if you're going to have the attitude by telling the TC's to "grow up", then the response is going to be, "screw you and the horse you rode in on". You see, that response will not produce a solution either, so why not try something that can work.

[miltiades]

Viewpoint , others have questioned your statement below which is undeniably the most unimaginative and , if you excuse the phrace , rather childish comment to make. In none of your posts have you ever promoted the common elements that all Cypriots have , you are in too much of a hurry to be absorbed by Turkey and live happily ever after. You see your self as the victim , no compassion expressed for the 200000 of your compatriots who became refugees in their own country , you are only concerned that you will be a minority in your own country.

""Because of the past and the current demands to turn us into a minority in our own country ""

Do us all a favour and take that revolting avatar and give it the burial it deserves.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas,

The above is my own idea for the Cyprus solution, since I do not live in Cyprus or have any contact with any political figures. If I had lived in Cyprus, I believe, I could live with the following agreements, to protect the minority( TC's ) from any political and security concerns they may have.

The 50-50 will only apply to members who will be in charge of the legislation to make laws and pass laws, and if we take the USA example, there would be 50%-50% in the Senate and 50%-50% in the Congress, regardless of the population size for the TC's and GC's. Any law making or changing should require no less than 60% to pass in the Senate and a simple majority in the House ( Congress ). Each side will only need to convince 10 members from the other side to vote with them to pass or reject anything that comes in front of them. Surely they should be able to find 10 moderates from each side to pass any law that is good for the country.

The President can also be appointed by the legislators on a 60% passing vote, with the condition that, who ever is elected President, the vice President will be from the other side. If the President dies in office, then the vice President takes over, and then will take on another vice President from the other side. As far as government positions go, they can be based on proportion to the population, 80%-20%. Naturally, if the President wants to be able to work with the legislators, he would want to put some members from the other side into one or two cabinet positions. For example, if a TC is elected to be the President, the cabinet should maintain the 80%-20% proportionality. For the military, it should be open to who ever wants to join. Let the best person serve his / her country. Each side can employ how ever many police they want, since the cost will come out of their own budget. Each side can also have equal number of National Guard members, paid by the government for the citizens to feel extra secure for the short term ( 25 years ). After that time period, there should be enough trust built between the two sides, the National Guards can be dismantled.

This would be a good way to set the stage for "my" 50-50 solution for the government of Cyprus. It can be fine tuned by you guys ( TC's and GC's ) later on.!!

What if we have a parliament that is more or less based on population ratios (i.e. 80:20,) that will be deciding on simple majority (50% + 1,) but in order for this majority to be qualified, there should be participation of at least 20% for some decisions and 30% for some other (higher level) decisions, of the members of each one of the two groups? Will this be satisfactory?

[Kifeas]

Viewpoint , others have questioned your statement below which is undeniably the most unimaginative and , if you excuse the phrace , rather childish comment to make. In none of your posts have you ever promoted the common elements that all Cypriots have , you are in too much of a hurry to be absorbed by Turkey and live happily ever after. You see your self as the victim , no compassion expressed for the 200000 of your compatriots who became refugees in their own country , you are only concerned that you will be a minority in your own country.

""Because of the past and the current demands to turn us into a minority in our own country ""

Do us all a favour and take that revolting avatar and give it the burial it deserves.

You do not mean to get it Miltiades, do you?
Viewpoint doesn't want to see nor regard you as her compatriot. Her compatriots are only the TCs and the Turkish settlers that have obtained the so-called "TRNC" citizenship. She doesn't want to regard Cyprus as her homeland. She only wants to regard as her homeland only the occupied areas, or the areas that according to her "constitute" the "TRNC."

[miltiades]

Then let her tell us loud and clear that I and you and the rest of the 800000 Cypriots are not her compatriots.
From my very very first post I made it abundantly clear that my compatriots are all Cypriots. I must admit I thought Viewpoint was a man.I would not have asked to meet for a drink had I known of that.

[Kifeas]

Then let her tell us loud and clear that I and you and the rest of the 800000 Cypriots are not her compatriots.
From my very very first post I made it abundantly clear that my compatriots are all Cypriots.

Miltiades, this is what you, me and many more regard all Cypriots. That however doesn't mean that this is what viewpoint and her likes think about themselves and us. I am afraid that the hand you are extending to viewpoint is doomed to always remain hanging in the air, as far as she is concerned.

I must admit I thought Viewpoint was a man.I would not have asked to meet for a drink had I known of that.

Have you met many men that can so consistently and for so long maintain the same monotonous wooden tong style, and insist on the same “broken record” and dogmatic approach, even after they have been proved time and time again not to have any real or logical argument to defend their case?