Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Let me also welcome our newcomer to the forum , and say from the start that all he says is all that I stand for.
Bananiot has to also realize that no solution can be enforced on the overwhelming majority since if such a solution was to be enforced , it would be a matter of time before the first cracks appeared and it would be disastrous for all Cypriots. Negotiations must be contacted based on the AP , but with modifications to ensure that the Plan would have a more than 80% chance of success. There are issues contained that would cause reaction from even the most moderates amongst us , those doubts would soon grow to a level where the risks of a breakdown would become a reality. The nation has suffered a great deal so far , a Plan unacceptable to the vast majority would not be conducive to a permanent peaceful coexistence. There are many such "minefields " in the AP we covered most of them in previous posts , but again I remind everyone of the section regarding Police stations , split equally 50-50 with each side flying either the Greek or Turkish flag. This is anathema to true Cypriots , I object as a Cypriot to the display of both foreign flags that will send out the message that we are Greeks and they are Turks.I do not care if 99.9% of Police stations were made entirely by T/Cs but not flying the flag of nation that is seen and quite rightly so as the invaders and occupiers of our Cypriot land. Both sides of the coin must be looked at. The overwhelming majority needs the confidence required to feel secure in the eventual plan that their security and the Islands territorial integrity will be guaranteed not by the Invader but by European or UN .
My usage of the word majority is not used exclusively for the g/cs but embraces all Cypriots .

[Pyrpolizer]

…. with each side flying either the Greek or Turkish flag….

I think the matter of flags of the constituent states was not finalised in the Anan Plan. But everybody assumed that because in every federation each CS has its own flag this should also be the case here. Anastasiades of DESY said "hey lets have the Greek Flag and the Greek National anthem for us!!!!!"

I totally disagree. If its going to be a Federation here its going to be different than any Federation in the world. Among those differences I would like to have only ONE flag for both the central and the Constituent states, only ONE national anthem for both the Central and the Federal states.

When they said they would open the roadblocks and we could go visit the occupied areas I was a soldier. I was on watch guarding the "borders" and I could see Turks and TC's passing by the road next to the army camp on the GC side and I was wondering what the hell I was guarding. . . .

You should actually think what the T/TC soldiers were guarding on the other side. A massive return of GCs and asking their propertries back!!! Because of the Turkish Army this did not happen, and because it did not happen you were sitting there idle….

[George_o]

Unification would be the unification of the land and the people of our island. Very often it seems that Greek Cypriots are mostly interested about unification of the land while Turkish Cypriots want separation of the people, something which is part of the 'Taksim' ideology and could not possibly be part of unification.

Here is part of an article by Sevgul Uludag that better explains what I am trying to say

One of the main problems concerning `reunification` is how people understand the concept. For the mainstream media of Greek Cypriots, `reunification` means the reunification of the land – this understanding, does not take into consideration the reunification of the people, of the communities, of the human beings but focuses all its attention on `the land`. Reunification of the land is in fact a very big issue and should be one of the aims but what is more important is how we shall unite our communities, how we shall find creative ways of bringing their hearts together, how we shall take up what unites them, rather than what divides them… How we shall strategize our focus on people, rather than basing our focus on official lines of either side. The main problem concerning `reunification` of the island for the mainstream Turkish Cypriot media is that it is subconsciously based on `two separate entities coming together`, not seeing that this is a remnant of `Taksim` policies… The focus is on `Bizonality` and with this, the `legitimization` of `the results of 1974`… No one is contesting that any future cooperation of our communities should be based on multiculturalism, rather than on the `hegemony` of the Greek Cypriot community in all fields… But how `bizonality` is perceived is a big problem because deep down, the ideology of `Taksim` is still there and has not been wiped out from the subconscious thinking of `duality` and `separatism` from the minds of some mainstream Turkish Cypriot journalists.

[Sotos]

Those are some wise words George! But I am not sure if you can have the discussions you want. Arguing about the past is more interesting it appears Why talk about what unites us when we can have some entertaining fights instead!

[Piratis]

The main problem concerning `reunification` of the island for the mainstream Turkish Cypriot media is that it is subconsciously based on `two separate entities coming together`, not seeing that this is a remnant of `Taksim` policies… The focus is on `Bizonality` and with this, the `legitimization` of `the results of 1974`… No one is contesting that any future cooperation of our communities should be based on multiculturalism, rather than on the `hegemony` of the Greek Cypriot community in all fields… But how `bizonality` is perceived is a big problem because deep down, the ideology of `Taksim` is still there and has not been wiped out from the subconscious thinking of `duality` and `separatism` from the minds of some mainstream Turkish Cypriot journalists.

Finally a Turkish Cypriot that understands that the racist separation of the Cypriot people that some ask for has nothing to do with reunification but it is instead the same old Taksim disguised.

Is Viewpoint and Bananiot reading this? They seem to be silent on this topic. Or maybe the accepted to make george_o a favor and leave their partitionists arguments out of this thread?

[Viewpoint]

The main problem concerning `reunification` of the island for the mainstream Turkish Cypriot media is that it is subconsciously based on `two separate entities coming together`, not seeing that this is a remnant of `Taksim` policies… The focus is on `Bizonality` and with this, the `legitimization` of `the results of 1974`… No one is contesting that any future cooperation of our communities should be based on multiculturalism, rather than on the `hegemony` of the Greek Cypriot community in all fields… But how `bizonality` is perceived is a big problem because deep down, the ideology of `Taksim` is still there and has not been wiped out from the subconscious thinking of `duality` and `separatism` from the minds of some mainstream Turkish Cypriot journalists.

Finally a Turkish Cypriot that understands that the racist separation of the Cypriot people that some ask for has nothing to do with reunification but it is instead the same old Taksim disguised.

Is Viewpoint and Bananiot reading this? They seem to be silent on this topic. Or maybe the accepted to make george_o a favor and leave their partitionists arguments out of this thread?

What hes talking about applies to a normal situation and multicultural situation and which is normally aceptable. We dont have that situation as the safety valves to ensure non repetition of the past will be based to a great extent along ethnic lines. You still dont realize that neither community trusts the intentions of the other community therefore our situation is magnified and disected to ensure that the intial concerns are not pushed to one side and are addressed to ensure both sides can commit to a solution.

[Piratis]

No Viewpoint, she is talking about Cyprus. She just doest share the Taksim ideology that you and many other TCs are stuck since the 50s.

"Unification" is not just a word. It means having as a result ONE country and ONE people. A "solution" were people and land are divided "along ethnic lines" is partition and not unification. This is so obvious I shouldn't even need to say it.

People do not trust each other because such development would not suit your aim. This is why you make everything possible (including spreading hate propaganda online) to maintain this mistrust.

If instead of partition you had a true unification as an aim, then trust building would be way easier.

This is why I always say that the first thing that has to be agreed is the aim. Without a common aim any discussions and negotiations are a total waste of time (like they have been for the past 32 years)

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

No Viewpoint, she is talking about Cyprus. She just doest share the Taksim ideology that you and many other TCs are stuck since the 50s. "Unification" is not just a word. It means having as a result ONE country and ONE people. A "solution" were people and land are divided "along ethnic lines" is partition and not unification. This is so obvious I shouldn't even need to say it.

Everyone is free to express their own ideals, there are many formulas to achieve a unified island, yours is just to dillute and in time assimilate the TCs into the numerically larger GC community. Ours is to perserve our numercally smaller community via BBF and equal political representation.

People do not trust each other because such development would not suit your aim. This is why you make everything possible (including spreading hate propaganda online) to maintain this mistrust.

People do not trust each other because of the past and lack of measures to remedy the situation. Pointing out reality is not spreading hate and propaganda. If you were a trustworthy community then you have nothing to worry about but obviously what I say does touch a very sensative nerve which everyone should be aware of as you are a potential partner in our future.
Why dont you take measure to improve the situation and prove me wrong lets see what you can do if you are sucessful I will be the first to applaud.

If instead of partition you had a true unification as an aim, then trust building would be way easier.

Im a realist, I do not belive there is a magic plan that with will drop from the sky and solve all our problems. We cant solve anything on our own and we expect others to step in and solve them for us. Both side are pathetic and we will reject any plan that should happen every 30 to 40 years. If we had the desire and the will we would have resolved our issues many years ago you just havent come to terms with this fact but in time you to like me will accept both sides do not want a solution. Its all talk to manipulate us and keep us voting for the wrong people for the wrong reasons.

This is why I always say that the first thing that has to be agreed is the aim. Without a common aim any discussions and negotiations are a total waste of time (like they have been for the past 32 years)

As long as we agree the Piratis aims then it becomes a common one am I right?. Thats not how it works, the aim will always differ from community to community the Annan plan being a prime example what was accetable to one side was totally rejected by the other.

[Pyrpolizer]

If we had the desire and the will we would have resolved our issues many years ago

You keep on talking for the past 46 years. Well lets take a chronology:

From 1967 to 1972 everything was agreed. The Greek Junta did not let Makarios finalise the agreement.
1974 Invasion: All your side was doing after 1974 was to stabilise the situation at the occupied areas, and prepare itself for a new "state". Noone of you was thinking of any solution
1983(?): 11 years later you thought it was the right time to proceed in official declaration of your "state". Still absolutely no interest by the TC people or leadership for any kind of solution.
1996: Your first time of realising the pseudo is getting no where and your isolation is plaguing you.
Around 2000: Your first real concerns about the GCs advancing so much they would even become members of EU.
2002-2004: The only real period you wanted a solution. The Anan Plan fabrication destroyed everything. Not your fault anyway, not our fault either.

So during all those years I would actually say that there were only 2 periods when both communities wanted a solution. 1967-1972, and 2002-2006. The first period was lost because of the Gc fanatics still wanting Enosis and the Greek Junta.This second period will also be lost imo because the TCs continue wanting partition and because of the Turkish deep state and Military regime.

Personally I am looking for the 3rd period when Turkey will get rid of the Military ruling, and the idea of disguised partition faints in the minds of TCs and their leadership.

NB. 1)There is a high possibility the scenario of 1972 will be repeated even today. In other words to come very close to agreement. But the Military regime in Turkey and the TC desire for real or disguised partition will not let it finalise. Patience….
2)I hope I did not destroy the spirit of this topic (before others did). I tried my best to talk about the future.

[Viewpoint]

46 years from 1960 when we had the opportunity of building and maintaining a united Cyprus.