Cyprus-Forum.com

[reportfromcyprus]

All credit to Cyprus for processing 40,000 evacuees in 14 days, what a feat, it's amazing. IMO this bodes well for our future, this kind of constructive leadership is what we need to solve Cyprus' problems and regional problems.

[Piratis]

When there is a clear aim of what we want to achieve and we are allowed to act in order to achieve it, solving a problem is much easier.

The big problems come when we can not agree on the aim and when the execution of the aim depends on others and not on Cypriots.
And when conflicting interests are created among us, and the option of democratically selecting an aim, even if not everybody agrees, is not an option, then you can understand how difficult it is to solve anything under such circumstances.

[reportfromcyprus]

Yes, I can understand.

Not just difficult but incredibly disheartening and demoralising.

I think the psychological blocks are mostly what prevent constructive problem-solving in situations like this.

What would be your primary objective in constructing a negotiation, Piratis?

I think mine would be to keep everything purely between the G/C and T/C - ie, only their agreements would stand, once reached, and all talks would be conducted in Nicosia, in a neutral zone, or specially designated building.

[Kifeas]

Yes, I can understand.

Not just difficult but incredibly disheartening and demoralising.

I think the psychological blocks are mostly what prevent constructive problem-solving in situations like this.

What would be your primary objective in constructing a negotiation, Piratis?

I think mine would be to keep everything purely between the G/C and T/C - ie, only their agreements would stand, once reached, and all talks would be conducted in Nicosia, in a neutral zone, or specially designated building.

I think you are a bit naive on this. The TCs do not exist, and I am surprised that you still think of the opposite. The Turkish Cypriots do not exist but only Turkey and the "interests" and aims of its pervasive state ideology. The TCs have no voice and no regard in the face of the above reality. And even those that claim to speak and negotiate on their behalf, are nothing more than just the carriages of the above Turkish megalomaniac and expansionist objectives. What kind of solution can we negotiate with such "Turkish Cypriots?" Last year, Talat tried to negotiate the so-called “ending of isolation” with the ending of Varosha illegal occupation under the Luxembourgian EU presidency, and Sezer (president of Turkey) called on him afterwards and told him off for trying to do so without Turkey’s “permission.” This is the so-called “TC leadership” we are trying to negotiate with.

Take Viewpoint for example. Do you think viewpoint expresses the deeper and most genuine interests if the TC community? Certainly not! What she does is to act as the mouthpiece of the Turkish cynical and audacious pan-turanist "interests" and aims, like her hero Denktash use to do for all the past 45 years.

[reportfromcyprus]

Naive, maybe, but not bitter.

Negotiation must be possible with the T/C, and they must be able to stand as their own entity. Otherwise, there's no point whatsoever.

Are the G/C any less influenced by outside powers? Nonetheless, they must also behave responsibly.

Perhaps it will only be possible to achieve a resolution many years down the line, when minds are more open to it.

[cypezokyli]

When there is a clear aim of what we want to achieve and we are allowed to act in order to achieve it, solving a problem is much easier.

The big problems come when we can not agree on the aim and when the execution of the aim depends on others and not on Cypriots.
And when conflicting interests are created among us, and the option of democratically selecting an aim, even if not everybody agrees, is not an option, then you can understand how difficult it is to solve anything under such circumstances.

i am just wondering sometimes if you ever get tired

what you wrote above is another attempt to turn into cheap propaganda , a success of the cypriot people, the public employees and the goverment.

may i assume , that the fact that we screw up on other domestic issues it is bc we are not united, or bc the execution doesnot depend on cypriots.

yeap . like the new (never-ending , with immense costs) hospital of nicosia. - "foreign conspiracy"

and the ignoring of security concerns at our airports (politiki aeroporia to be exact) , it is because - the option of democratically selecting an aim, even if not everybody agrees, is not an option.

and the rousfet that it is all over in all goverments is a concequence that we are not united.

i say, we make a protest outside the american embassy for the never completed pariliakos street in lemesos.

i hope you dont want me to go on showing, how your arguments cannot describe a number of our failures. this time (and others ofcource) the public sector reacted in a very good way , but neither the unity, nor the foreigners , nor democraticblablabla , can explain that success. because if they could, then their absence could explain the above failures.

the above analysis carries a methodological error.

or it is simply a cheap attempt of propaganda

[Kifeas]

When there is a clear aim of what we want to achieve and we are allowed to act in order to achieve it, solving a problem is much easier.

The big problems come when we can not agree on the aim and when the execution of the aim depends on others and not on Cypriots.
And when conflicting interests are created among us, and the option of democratically selecting an aim, even if not everybody agrees, is not an option, then you can understand how difficult it is to solve anything under such circumstances.

i am just wondering sometimes if you ever get tired

what you wrote above is another attempt to turn into cheap propaganda , a success of the cypriot people, the public employees and the goverment.

may i assume , that the fact that we screw up on other domestic issues it is bc we are not united, or bc the execution doesnot depend on cypriots.

yeap . like the new (never-ending , with immense costs) hospital of nicosia. - "foreign conspiracy"

and the ignoring of security concerns at our airports (politiki aeroporia to be exact) , it is because - the option of democratically selecting an aim, even if not everybody agrees, is not an option.

and the rousfet that it is all over in all goverments is a concequence that we are not united.

i say, we make a protest outside the american embassy for the never completed pariliakos street in lemesos.

i hope you dont want me to go on showing, how your arguments cannot describe a number of our failures. this time (and others ofcource) the public sector reacted in a very good way , but neither the unity, nor the foreigners , nor democraticblablabla , can explain that success. because if they could, then their absence could explain the above failures.

the above analysis carries a methodological error.

or it is simply a cheap attempt of propaganda

Pezo, allow me to say that you talk nonsense! You may as well buy a whip and start self-whipping for being a Cypriot, i.e. a member of the "worthless," "incompetent," "lazy," "stupid" people that you just described!

[cypezokyli]

Pezo, allow me to say that you talk nonsense! You may as well buy a whip and start self-whipping for being a Cypriot, i.e. a member of the "worthless," "incompetent," "lazy," "stupid" people that you just described!

thank you.
let me try to explain what i meant.

let me start with what i wrote before :

a success of the cypriot people, the public employees and the goverment.

i admitted more than once that our goverment acted very responibly in this case. as a concequence , i dont see the relation with "worthless" incompetent" and whatever. how did you reach that conclussion ?

i refered simply to a rediculous comparison.
the handling of the lebanon refuggees and the cyppro (if that is what he meant) is simply out of place and time.

more over the reasons he mentioned for a success might be accepted in any cypriot newspaper , but they can be no serious arguments. that is why i reffered to "methodological error". any researcher would simply laugh at these arguments.

now lets look at the reasons that piratis gave as explanatory for the success :

1. clear aim of what we want to achieve

2. we are allowed to act in order to achieve it,

3. when the execution of the aim depends on others and not on Cypriots.

4. when conflicting interests are created among us, and the option of democratically selecting an aim, even if not everybody agrees, is not an option, then you can understand how difficult it is to solve anything under such circumstances.


if we assume that these are the factors of success , that means that in any place we have a goverment failure, one or all of these factors are absent. and i do not believe that in any of the above, can give a clear explanation why in some things we have success and in some others not.

if it is still not clear why piratis explanations are no serious arguments , i can try to explain again with examples. but for that i will need to write a whole long post.


common kifeas , please dont tell me that the reason that our goverment acted so well in this case was because we had the option of "democratically selecting an aim"

[Piratis]

i refered simply to a rediculous comparison.
the handling of the lebanon refuggees and the cyppro (if that is what he meant) is simply out of place and time.

Then why you didn't say that this thread should not have been made in this section by reportfromcyprus and you instead attacked me?

The comparison was not made by me, I simply commented on the post of somebody else.

now lets look at the reasons that piratis gave as explanatory for the success :

Were did I give any explanation for success??????????????????????????????
Are you dreaming things?

I simply explained why the Cyprus Problem is a problem way harder than anything else. Everything beyond that is part of your dream.

For example, here is a problem for you:
(6^x+6^-x)/6 = 2

Can you solve it by finding x?

Maybe you can, maybe you can not (e.g. rusfeti). Maybe you will do it fast, maybe you will delay(e.g. Nicosia hospital). If you try you will at least come up with some solution (even a wrong one)

Now if I also tell you that me and you have to also agree on what the x is to consider this issue solved, and I will only accept that x can be between 13000909 and 13000990 (it doesn't make sense? who cares!) then can you solve this problem now?
Well there is only one way to do it: To accept my ridiculous claims. (oh, sure, you can also convince me that I am wrong. But if I am like Turks, and making ridiculous and outrageous claims is not a problem for me, then you are out of luck)

This is not to say that the Cyprus Problem is a math equation with only one possible solution. This is to explain to you that if to the already existing problems (e.g. you are not good in math) you also need the agreement of somebody that a "solution" means something totally different that what it means for you (=no common aim), then the solution of the problem becomes WAY harder, even impossible.

[cypezokyli]

excuse me, but i didnot understand anything.
and i am not only reffering to the math part !!!