Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Viewpoint , get a hold of your self , you are exaggerating again , how many thousands of Turkish troops died ???

YOU WROTE:
""it is at this point that thousands of Turkish soldiers died and you expect them not retaliate with even greater force, it was all out war the moment you ""

You tend to over estimate the capabilities of the G/Cs to inflict harm on the Turkish army.
YOU USE THE SAME ANALOGY WHEN DEALING WITH WHAT YOU CALL THE "CLEANSING " OF T/Cs
It's called propaganda , its unsubstantiated figures from the top of your head , that really is not necessary.
I think from the top of my head the number of Turkish troops that were killed was no more than a few hundred if that , but as I said I'm using the same criteria as you do , the top of my head.

Miltiades, I do not know what you have in mind but even though the GCs were fighting with WWI “type A” (“martini”) rifles and some bazookas and Brens, Turkish troops indeed have had severe losses. On the landing place and until the fall of Kyrenia (3 days after the invasion begun,) they definitely lost more than 500 troops and officers, and in the 5 day long fighting to occupy Lapithos and Karavas villages during the cease-fire period (31/7 -5/8 ) and which I have lived through until we evacuated Lapithos on the evening of the 4/08, they lost at least another 400 - 500 and about 6 tanks. On the capturing by LOK units of the Kocha Kayia hills opposite St. Hilarion (overlooking Agirda village) and the Petromouthkia hill overlooking the Kyrenia/Nicosia passage, during the night of 20/21 of July, reports say that at least 1-2 companies of parachutists (marines) have vanished. The Turks never publicly revealed their losses in 1974, but it is estimated that that they were in the range 2,000 –in fact approximately as many as the GC NG had lost.

[Kifeas]

Why did you guys run away and not stay in your homes? Just like we are advised by GCs that we wanted to go into ghettos in 1963 and that it was not out of fear but purely an urge to live in bad conditions and cause havoc, I can also comment that you should have stood your ground and staked claim to your homes and land. Why did you try to fight the Turkish army? they declared we are here to save you from the coup if you fire at us we will fire back with greater force. The GCs fired the first bullets and bombs from the mountains at the Turkish forces landing in Kyrenia where thousands of soldiers died, why didnt they greet them with flowers? and thank them for using their rights under the guarantee to intervene in situations such as the ones unfolding in 1974?

Excellent post Viewpoint.

Viewpoint, the Turkish air and naval strikes begun at 4:30 in the morning of the 20th of July. The landing at the 5th mile started at 8:20 am, almost 4 hours after the air strikes from about 40 F-100's and the shelling from some 10 gunboats started. During these 4 hours, the Turkish air force must have dropped about 250 bombs already, and left no bridge, no road, no car moving in the streets and no National Guard post and camp (or what they perceived to have been so) that they did not hit, both in the entire Kyrenia and Nicosia areas. In fact, because the "Greek" junta and its officers that were in control of the NG "neglected" to order the dispersing and deployment in their pre-planed positions from the previous night -even though they knew of the invasion from the previous day, no cannons and other heavy artilery have managed to take up the mountains or other positions in order to hit the landing ships, because they were nearly all destroyed by the air force while they were getting carried through the various streets, during the morning of the 20th of July. The only force that arrive at the landing spot were infantry troops that went there on foot from kilometers away, 1 hour after the sea landing started, because they were caught on the way and bombed by the air force. In the meantime, about 2 battalions of Turkish troops had gone out and onto the coast and took positions, and guess what happened to all the people living in the houses around the landing place. Nearly all of them were "gone" -some one hundred people, and only a few that were arrested managed to survive, after Kutchuk was called by a GC doctor from a house there that knew him, and was asked to speak with the officer in charge of the landing forces.

Only in my village, Lapithos, the air force dropped more than 30 such bombs during the first hours of the invasion, some of which hit civilian houses and killing quite a few civilians that were inside.

What you said above is completely out of the reality.

[Simon]

Kifeas, I completely agree with you.

Vp, what you have said above just makes you sound completely stupid.

[Kikapu]

Turkey occupies 3rd of the island, but does not occupy it's people.

This is the only main difference as I also wrote in my initial post. Turkey performed the ethnic cleansing at once, while Israel is doing it gradually.

Or are you saying that if Israel tomorrow ethnically cleanses the Palestinians that would make Israel better? .

Actually, when the state of Israel was formed back in 1947, there were 500,000 to 1,000,000 Palestinians were evicted from their homes on the land that Israel sits today. The gradual ethnic cleansing that you're talking about, started from the 1967 war.

I don't quiet get your last sentence.

[miltiades]

Kifeas , I used the figure of a few hundred Turkish casualties in a derogatory way , from the top of my head , since VP referred to thousands , which loosely translated it means thousands.
Viewpoints' entire posting is absurd to say the least , he actually suggested that the G/Cs should have welcomed the invading forces with flowers . He is set in his inflexible and very rigid position and will not change , in fact he reminds me of Denktash . If a lie is repeated over and over then its a matter of time before it becomes accepted as the truth,. Perfect example , Religion.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint , get a hold of your self , you are exaggerating again , how many thousands of Turkish troops died ???

YOU WROTE:
""it is at this point that thousands of Turkish soldiers died and you expect them not retaliate with even greater force, it was all out war the moment you ""

You tend to over estimate the capabilities of the G/Cs to inflict harm on the Turkish army.
YOU USE THE SAME ANALOGY WHEN DEALING WITH WHAT YOU CALL THE "CLEANSING " OF T/Cs
It's called propaganda , its unsubstantiated figures from the top of your head , that really is not necessary.
I think from the top of my head the number of Turkish troops that were killed was no more than a few hundred if that , but as I said I'm using the same criteria as you do , the top of my head.

Miltiades, I do not know what you have in mind but even though the GCs were fighting with WWI “type A” (“martini”) rifles and some bazookas and Brens, Turkish troops indeed have had severe losses. On the landing place and until the fall of Kyrenia (3 days after the invasion begun,) they definitely lost more than 500 troops and officers, and in the 5 day long fighting to occupy Lapithos and Karavas villages during the cease-fire period (31/7 -5/8 ) and which I have lived through until we evacuated Lapithos on the evening of the 4/08, they lost at least another 400 - 500 and about 6 tanks. On the capturing by LOK units of the Kocha Kayia hills opposite St. Hilarion (overlooking Agirda village) and the Petromouthkia hill overlooking the Kyrenia/Nicosia passage, during the night of 20/21 of July, reports say that at least 1-2 companies of parachutists (marines) have vanished. The Turks never publicly revealed their losses in 1974, but it is estimated that that they were in the range 2,000 –in fact approximately as many as the GC NG had lost.

Thank you for confirming part of my post that thousands of Turkish soldiers perished as they tried to land at 5 mile, the real figures will never be revealed as a matter of national pride and secreacy but you can bet that the forces trying to land at 5 mile were met with heavy artilary fire and were bombed on an open beach with noway of taking cover. The troops that jumped of the boats fell to their death, Kifeas could you kindly support your statements with independent material? The bombing only started after the Turks realized the landing at 5 miles was not going well. miltiades if you wish I can take you around the bunkers in the Five Finger mountain range that were built by the GC just for this purpose, to annihalate the enemy landing on the beaches. It was at this point whne the Turkish army started to take heavy loses and it was evident that GCs were not welcoming their peace operation they hit back with the full force of that armies are trainned for and all hell let loose. The bombing and parachute regiments started to be used to weaken the GC hold on Kyrenia and surrounding villages. If the GCs had not have bombed the troops landing at 5 mile I truly believe the situation today would have been much different and there would not have been so many refugees and the Turkish army would have departed many years ago. You reep what you sow and the GCs have to accept that they played with fire and got heavily burned, instead of pursuing a policy of working with TCs to build a united Cyprus they dreamed of bring about Enosis and ridding the island of its TC population once and for all.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas, I completely agree with you.

Vp, what you have said above just makes you sound completely stupid.

Where were you when the TCs were accused of wanting to go into ghettos in the 1963s for the fun of it and because they feared for their safety and were constantly discriminated against.

[miltiades]

Viewpoint , are joking or are you just talking rubbish. Who the hell would welcome an invading army in their country with open arms , get a hold of your self man get real , don't have such ridiculous assumptions that the invading army was an army of peace. Your insulting your own people too by making such ludicrous suggestions.
JUST READ THIS CRAP >>>>>


""was at this point whne the Turkish army started to take heavy loses and it was evident that GCs were not welcoming their peace operation they hit back with the full force ""

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint , are joking or are you just talking rubbish. Who the hell would welcome an invading army in their country with open arms , get a hold of your self man get real , don't have such ridiculous assumptions that the invading army was an army of peace. Your insulting your own people too by making such ludicrous suggestions.
JUST READ THIS CRAP >>>>>


""was at this point whne the Turkish army started to take heavy loses and it was evident that GCs were not welcoming their peace operation they hit back with the full force ""

Why is it so ridicoulous the troops landed to restore order due to the coup even Makarios asked for help and what met them a full scale bombing and firing population of GCs, they started to take heavy loses, what did you expect them to do? they fought back with all their force. If the GCs had not have shown hostility what do you think the Turkish soldiers would have done with UN and world looking on?

[miltiades]

Viewpoint , for crying out loud man , Turkey invaded this f..ng island of ours not with bunches of flowers and chocolates but with heavily armed troops ready for battle .NO SINGLE TURKISH SOLDIER WAS UNDER ANY IMPRESSION THAT THE G/Cs WOULD WELCOME HIM WITH OPEBN ARMS.
Are you really that much mentally raped to believe that the G/Cs would have welcomed the Turkish Invaders ,
as a peace mission. I like a good debate but will not carry on debating such a blatantly stupid supposition.

And I will still buy you a drink !!