Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Pyrpolizer

Now you hit me on the nerves once again.

Relax nothing to get annoyed baout, take deep breaths..

"trnc" is a pseudo, is not your Country, is 90% stolen GC land and you tell me it’s your country??? It’s not your country it is my country its been like that for 3500 years. What gives you the right to say something like that?

We have every right being also the owners of this island and partners in a constitution that did not work. You have to appreciate that TCs from my generation and after do not know the "RoC" all we know as our country is the TRNC. You cannot expect us to love the "RoC" as it brings back the past which was not to rosey for us. Circumstances have dictacted that we have been raised this way and you cannot expect us to change overnight. The reality is recognized or not the TRNC exists and it is a place that TC identify themselves with. Whether this changes in the future is as much in your hands as it is mine.

If the majority of Tcs think like that, then forget it, there will never be a solution. You must digest the fact that we are actually doing you a huge favor to accept that you administer yourselves in Cyprus under a Federal stucture but to tell me that part of the Federal Cyprus is your country I tell you get lost from my sight. It will never be. And trnc is currently a part of Cyprus under illegal occupation, theft and ongoing sell out by you

Of course they think this way which is only natural the south is like another country to me and many TCs, it could be Italy or Malta, there they speak a foreign language as well just like you. Dont do us that favor what will you do? do you have a choice? you are doing everything within your means to disrupt the TRNC but it wont work after 23 years do you still not realize this? The only way to reunite the island if that is your goal is to encourage the TCs to work with you and see first hand what the benefits would be of a united Cyprus and that GCs can be trusted. Blow away all the myths which you state are lodged in TCs minds, feel free to prove us wrong that you to want the best for both communities. Until a time comes when we can say the whole island is ours together and mean it then the current situation will continue indefinately.

[Pyrpolizer]

Why don't you love England as your country where you obviously lived most of your life?Weren't you safe there?
Should the Rumanians hate their country because they had a dictatorship there killing innocent citizens?

No what you "love" is NOT a country. What you love is what you 've stolen from others, and the cover it got under an administrative puppet regime so called "trnc". RoC is not a country either. It is an administration system as well. The country in this place is_Cyprus the one and only. Not North West East and South and the rest of Denktash Bullshit. I would be ashamed if I were you.

[Natty]

I know their is a theory that the Junta and EOKA B, whether they new it or not, were working with the Turkish Goverment, and the Americans, so they could achive 'Double Enosis' half of Cyprus goes to Greece, half to cyprus...although I could be wrong...

Professor Theodore Couloumbis wrote,

"A war could have been excluded with certainly only through a prearrangement of Greeks (the Junta) and Turks to eliminate Makarios and to Partition Cyprus. If such an agreement did not excist (and there is no contrary evidence to date), then one can speculate that Ioannides was somehow led to 'assume' that Turks would not have reacted to his anti-Makarios putcsh, and that he naively went along with presumption"

I also found this interesting quote from the book "Hostage to History" about the Turkish Invasion...

" Supposing that one takes the most sympathetic view of the Turkish intervention-that is was a necessary counterstroke to a Greek putsch-and suppose that one regards the Turkish minority as blameless in the disruptions and brutalities of the 1960s. Suppose, further, that one ignores the long and tenacious attachment of the Turkish and Turkish Cypriot leadership to partition irrespective of the majority will. Suppose, still further, that one can forget or discount the outside involvement of the British and the United States in the same cause. Put the case that there might have been-indeed would have been- murderous attacks on Turkish Cypriots en masse by a consolidated Sampson leadership. Put the case that the Cyrpus problem is purely a question of the security of the Turkish Cypriots. Admit that the first Turkish intervention of 20 July 1974 did everybody a favour by demolishing the rule of Fascism in Greece and Cyprus. Agree and allow all this, and the second Turksish invasion becomes more reprehensable rather than less. By the time it took place, on the 14 August 1974, the Greek irredentist forces had fallen from power in both Athens and Nicosia. Negotiations were underway, and relations between the two communities on the Island were stable if nervous. The pretext for the original invasion had ceased to exist, and if Mr Ecevit had withdrawn his forces he would have been remembered as the man who rid Greece and Cyprus from it's designs, and rebuilt the image of Turkey in the West. The moral and (given such an impressive demonstration of Turkish force) the actual pressure for a lasting and generous settlement with the Turkish Cypriots would have been irresistable. Instead Mr Ecevit and his generals embarked on a policy of conquest and annexation."

Peace!!

Hey, sorry for dragging us back to the subject of the 1974 invasion, but I new I had the bellow quote somewhere, but I couldn't find it anywhere, however I've found ti now, and I believe that it backs up my claim that the invasion, was not just a 'peace operation' to protect the TC's, but was also, mainly, an invasion that took place on a 'seized' oppotunity, and must have been, at least a little but planned before hand.

"A broad coupist action to take place in the next few days, supported by the military circles in co-operation with units of the National Guard (which had become over run with junta mainland (?) soilders and was Junta officered, also certain GC's who seemed impressionable enough, were picked out and trained by the Junta, I beleive), and EOKA B groups, for the purpose of seizing power. This coupist action has been planned in such a way that it formally releases senior military personnel or Greek army circles from any responsibility...if the plan succeeds (which it didn't), the Goverment will be taken over by a certain person who has already been chosen and who, in substance, will be the puppet for a transitional period. Naturally, it is understood that the partition of Cyprus will be achieved through the coup plan with the understanding that the Turks have their plans prepared for such a golden opportunity"

The above editorial appeared in the GC daily Apogevmatini (afternoon) and it was published on the 5th of July 1974, before the Coup and the Invasion!

Peace!

[Natty]

I know their is a theory that the Junta and EOKA B, whether they new it or not, were working with the Turkish Goverment, and the Americans, so they could achive 'Double Enosis' half of Cyprus goes to Greece, half to cyprus...although I could be wrong...

Professor Theodore Couloumbis wrote,

"A war could have been excluded with certainly only through a prearrangement of Greeks (the Junta) and Turks to eliminate Makarios and to Partition Cyprus. If such an agreement did not excist (and there is no contrary evidence to date), then one can speculate that Ioannides was somehow led to 'assume' that Turks would not have reacted to his anti-Makarios putcsh, and that he naively went along with presumption"

I also found this interesting quote from the book "Hostage to History" about the Turkish Invasion...

" Supposing that one takes the most sympathetic view of the Turkish intervention-that is was a necessary counterstroke to a Greek putsch-and suppose that one regards the Turkish minority as blameless in the disruptions and brutalities of the 1960s. Suppose, further, that one ignores the long and tenacious attachment of the Turkish and Turkish Cypriot leadership to partition irrespective of the majority will. Suppose, still further, that one can forget or discount the outside involvement of the British and the United States in the same cause. Put the case that there might have been-indeed would have been- murderous attacks on Turkish Cypriots en masse by a consolidated Sampson leadership. Put the case that the Cyrpus problem is purely a question of the security of the Turkish Cypriots. Admit that the first Turkish intervention of 20 July 1974 did everybody a favour by demolishing the rule of Fascism in Greece and Cyprus. Agree and allow all this, and the second Turksish invasion becomes more reprehensable rather than less. By the time it took place, on the 14 August 1974, the Greek irredentist forces had fallen from power in both Athens and Nicosia. Negotiations were underway, and relations between the two communities on the Island were stable if nervous. The pretext for the original invasion had ceased to exist, and if Mr Ecevit had withdrawn his forces he would have been remembered as the man who rid Greece and Cyprus from it's designs, and rebuilt the image of Turkey in the West. The moral and (given such an impressive demonstration of Turkish force) the actual pressure for a lasting and generous settlement with the Turkish Cypriots would have been irresistable. Instead Mr Ecevit and his generals embarked on a policy of conquest and annexation."

Peace!!

Hey, sorry for dragging us back to the subject of the 1974 invasion, but I new I had the bellow quote somewhere, but I couldn't find it anywhere, however I've found ti now, and I believe that it backs up my claim that the invasion, was not just a 'peace operation' to protect the TC's, but was also, mainly, an invasion that took place on a 'seized' oppotunity, and must have been, at least a little but planned before hand.

"A broad coupist action to take place in the next few days, supported by the military circles in co-operation with units of the National Guard (which had become over run with junta mainland (?) soilders and was Junta officered, also certain GC's who seemed impressionable enough, were picked out and trained by the Junta, I beleive), and EOKA B groups, for the purpose of seizing power. This coupist action has been planned in such a way that it formally releases senior military personnel or Greek army circles from any responsibility...if the plan succeeds (which it didn't), the Goverment will be taken over by a certain person who has already been chosen and who, in substance, will be the puppet for a transitional period. Naturally, it is understood that the partition of Cyprus will be achieved through the coup plan with the understanding that the Turks have their plans prepared for such a golden opportunity"

The above editorial appeared in the GC daily Apogevmatini (afternoon) and it was published on the 5th of July 1974, before the Coup and the Invasion!

Peace!

[Marz]

yOU KNOW WHY YOU CALL IT TRNC?

BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT CYPRIOTS, YOU ARE TURKS WHO LIVE IN CYPRUS, AS YOU CALL YOURSELFS, WHO DONT ACCEPT US AND WANT TO FORCE US TO GIVE THEM OUR LAND TO LIVE ON LEGALLY.
YOU WANT TO LIVE IN CYPRUS AS TURKS NOT CYPRIOTS AND YOU DONT WANT TO ACCEEPT US ONLY OUR LAND.
the land you occupy is not a different country it was one country before you came there and still is. Only turks can believe their own lies.
you blatatly admit in your words yes its your land but we wont give it back we want you to accept us and our proposal to divide your land and call it trnc. becasue at the moment you are there illegally and you fear if eventually the people of Cyprus have their justice and take the land back Turkey will suffer a big loss strategically.

The solution is the TC will have to accept living under a Cypriot rule where all people are equal which im sure everyone wants, if the TC wants to be in Government they should work hard towards that goal not be given it on a platter, work for your land and homes, not steal them form others as currently is.
Just becasue you been theri 32 years doenst give you the right to call for a seperate country and divide the land, totally riduculous and should never happen.

[Viewpoint]

yOU KNOW WHY YOU CALL IT TRNC?

BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT CYPRIOTS, YOU ARE TURKS WHO LIVE IN CYPRUS, AS YOU CALL YOURSELFS, WHO DONT ACCEPT US AND WANT TO FORCE US TO GIVE THEM OUR LAND TO LIVE ON LEGALLY.
YOU WANT TO LIVE IN CYPRUS AS TURKS NOT CYPRIOTS AND YOU DONT WANT TO ACCEEPT US ONLY OUR LAND.
the land you occupy is not a different country it was one country before you came there and still is. Only turks can believe their own lies.
you blatatly admit in your words yes its your land but we wont give it back we want you to accept us and our proposal to divide your land and call it trnc. becasue at the moment you are there illegally and you fear if eventually the people of Cyprus have their justice and take the land back Turkey will suffer a big loss strategically.

The solution is the TC will have to accept living under a Cypriot rule where all people are equal which im sure everyone wants, if the TC wants to be in Government they should work hard towards that goal not be given it on a platter, work for your land and homes, not steal them form others as currently is.
Just becasue you been theri 32 years doenst give you the right to call for a seperate country and divide the land, totally riduculous and should never happen.

You really need to get a reality check.. the TRNC has been in place since 1983 and is the result of yours and my communities mistakes. Isnt it time you thought more about how you intend to correct those mistakes and encourage TCs and GCs to live and work together. Unless you do this the current situation which is the TRNC is here to stay for a good many more years maybe forever. Another point Marz this thing about land we also have land here as well just think of the extra we have a bonus for the years you took away our rights and and exploited a recognized Cyprus as purely GC. We have no problems returning land as soon as you can find a solution but can you cope with ahving to share political power with us the TCs?

[Marz]

None recognises that area as TRNC except Turkey, just because youve been their for 32 years and the majority of the people are Turkish doenst mean you claim a seperate state or country as you are.
Its cyprus thats it, you know and so does the rest of the world.

[Piratis]

Marz, the legal majority (great majority actually) in the now occupied Cyprus are Greek Cypriots who have lived in that area for long long long time before any Turk appeared in any part of Cyprus. The only reason TCs and Turks are now a majority in the occupied areas is that they have ethnically cleansed the majority of the population and brought illegal settlers from Turkey in their place.

Now just because they illegally occupy some part they think that they can declare a state on it. Well thats exactly why the pseudo state they declared is illegal. Because we don't live in the middle ages were the great Ottoman conquerors could just butcher everybody and declare the land they forcefully taken as their own. It doesn't work that way anymore. And the faster the Turks realize this the better for them. Otherwise they will be stuck in the middle ages indefinitely and this is not good for the people they oppress (Cypriots, Kurds etc) but it is not good for Turks either.

[Viewpoint]

None recognises that area as TRNC except Turkey, just because youve been their for 32 years and the majority of the people are Turkish doenst mean you claim a seperate state or country as you are.
Its cyprus thats it, you know and so does the rest of the world.

Then go negotiate with the rest of the world and see where it will get you, where it has gotten you over the past 32 years absoulutely nowhere.
The opinion of the TCs and Gcs are what matters here and not the rest of the world, if we cant solve our problems we cant expect others to do it for us unless you are willing to be manipulated and end up with a something you do not want, you say you have experieinced this in the past so your community should be the ones leading the way and not placing trsut in other intermediaries.

[Viewpoint]

Marz, the legal majority (great majority actually) in the now occupied Cyprus are Greek Cypriots who have lived in that area for long long long time before any Turk appeared in any part of Cyprus. The only reason TCs and Turks are now a majority in the occupied areas is that they have ethnically cleansed the majority of the population and brought illegal settlers from Turkey in their place.

Now just because they illegally occupy some part they think that they can declare a state on it. Well thats exactly why the pseudo state they declared is illegal. Because we don't live in the middle ages were the great Ottoman conquerors could just butcher everybody and declare the land they forcefully taken as their own. It doesn't work that way anymore. And the faster the Turks realize this the better for them. Otherwise they will be stuck in the middle ages indefinitely and this is not good for the people they oppress (Cypriots, Kurds etc) but it is not good for Turks either.

Piratis why do you have this misconception that the its not good for the Turks, I take it you are also including Turkish Cypriots in your statements. We have 37% of the island we rule ourselves with no GC discrimination or intervention. We enjoy a reasonable standard of living in comparison to some Eu countries. We are free to travel all over the world, we are highly educated and have the latest luxuries available. Our children are not at risk or danger from bombs exploing or fanatical ideals to annihalate TCs. We have all the infrastructure that most countries of our size have, the only problem is we are not recognized. The rate at which we are going time will resolve this issue as well if nopth,ing better comes along....and that is really in your hands. (ho sorry I forgot the swing in power may go your way some day, we can only wait and you can hope )