Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Then why TCs that are 18% do not accept 18% of land? If they want more land, it means they have to take it from somebody else. They want to take our land!! If this is not stealing and greediness then what is it?

Why don't you answer. Do you accept solution 2?

So confrontational

Is it really the TC side (alone) that refuses to countenaced and AGREED partition? I do not think so.

Do you expect me to believe Piratis that if YOU ruled the RoC AND had the means to force the Turkish troops from Cyprus you would simply take back and exact proprtion equal to what was owned pre 60 and stop there and recognise the now smaller TRNC? Of course you would not. If you could you would take the whole Island by force.

Of course there is no time in Cyprus' history when GC drove TC from the lands and homes and torched their houses and stole pocessions. Of course not because GC are not thieves but TC are.

Now I really do try my upmost to not personalise these discussions and to resits blatant 'baiting' but I have to say Piratis you behave like a petulant child and like a petulant child you achieve nothing excpet to annoy the hell out of everyone subject to your outbursts.

[insan]

TC are not more or less greedy than GC. TC are no more or less 'thieves' than GC. They are no more or less human than GC.

Absolutely right!

Some thief(Not all) GCs use TC properties since 1963 and freely sell the goods they produce to other countries, on those stolen TC lands; while TCs can't... Some of them even are not refugees...

Alasya, your response doesn't surprise me. It was pretty obvious to me that some Turkish Cypriots are greedy and want to gain on our back as much as possible.

Piratis, let it be calculated by a joint comitee of TCs and GCs as it was agreed by Denktash and Makarios in 1977. We don't want a %18 land which half of it will consist of unproductive and poor economic viability land...


Would you like me to give you the %80 rotten part of the apple? Is it fair?

[Alasya]

T/C tended to live in Urban areas, and lowland villages, so private land ownership is a reflection not of the wealth of T/C but of their residential status.

Evidence from G/C sources indicate that T/Cs tended to live in urban areas and in the low lands (Not Troodos). The districts with the highest percentage of T/C residents were Paphos where they accounted for 24.28% of the population and Larnaca 21.44% and Nicosia 19.91%. Very few T/C lived in the agricultural area of the Troodos mountains, where 95.3% were G/C, and 4.7% T/C.



T/C population Nicosia (Towns) 53%, (Countryside) 46%.
G/C (towns) 44% (Countryside) 56%
T/c accounted for 23.16% of the popukation of Nicosia town.


T/C population Paphos (Town) 21% (countryside) 79.4%
G/C (Town) 14% (countryside) 86%
T/C accounted for 31.39% of the population of Paphos town.

46% of T/C population of Limassol district lived in Limassol Town, compared to 40% of G/C. In Larnaca, T/C accounted for 20.47% of the Urban population.


Looking at the above information, it appears that T/C had a greater tendancy to migrate to urban areas than G/Cs.

The fact that T/Cs owned 12.5% of private land back in 1960, means only one thing, that they are under-represented in private land ownership. What kind of people buy private land? - Farmers for grazing their sheep, or for cultivating the land. Unless I m wrong developers may also buy land but generally in areas that have potential for tourism, this excludes many areas in Cyprus. In short this means the T/C were under-represented in the island`s agricultural industry. It means nothing else!

G.Karaouzis has compiled survey by survey of each economic region of Cyprus and the demographic presence of T/C and G/C and others.

[Piratis]

The fact that T/Cs owned 12.5% of private land back in 1960, means only one thing, that they are under-represented in private land ownership.

Ok, and thats why I said 18%, and not 12.5%. If you know the word "under-represented" then you should also know "over-represented". If the population of TCs is 18%, then the only percentage of land that TCs should own and it would be neither over-represented nor under-represented is 18%.

Personally I am always trying to be 100% fair. If you fail to see why the "solution 1" I propose is fair, then I really can't see how you can claim that 18% of people should get 18% of land is not fair either, and claim that this 18% of people should get 30%!!

Would you like me to give you the %80 rotten part of the apple? Is it fair?

No, and I never said you should get the 18% of rotten land.

Your 18% should be 18% in everything. Not 18% of land that worths 10%, but not an 18% of land that worths 30% either.

And yes, If it was up to me alone, I would agree for "solution 2". If TCs don't want to live with us, and they fail to realize how an independent, united, European Cyprus is so much better for them than having a supposedly independent state which will in reality be a Turkish puppet state, then what can I do?

[brother]

I have been thinking about this issue, and wonder if tc are 18% and as such get so much land what about their goverment land, land for population growth etc. as i do not believe that the gc are 82% of the population and as such get the rest of it.

Now even when i read this back to myself it all seems so petty, either we are all cypriots or are we turks and greeks and not cypriots.

[turkcyp]

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[brother]

We are not finding new names but defining ourselves, yes it may take time but the difference with the U.S is they are different people wereas we have almost identical DNA and neither are we similar to turkey or greece in our makeup we are similar to one another hence i say we should be cypriots and let go of the turk/greek part of it.

[metecyp]

So let us call oursleves Turkish Cypriots, and Greek Cypriots. As long as we respect each others differences, and leran to love and respect each other and live peacfully togetherm then there is no need to find oursleves new names.

I believe this is a personal choice. If someone feels like a Turk, let them be a Turk. If someone feels like a Cypriot, let them be a Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot or whatever. These are not important for a solution. What's important is that we accept and respect each other no matter how we choose to define ourselves as turkcyp said.

We are not finding new names but defining ourselves, yes it may take time but the difference with the U.S is they are different people wereas we have almost identical DNA and neither are we similar to turkey or greece in our makeup we are similar to one another hence i say we should be cypriots and let go of the turk/greek part of it.

DNA and all that is not important. You know in Turkey they have a wide spectrum of policital groups; leftists, communists, fascists etc. These people have identical DNAs but a communist never gets along with a fascist. Why? Because they have fundamentally different views and more importantly they don't respect and accept each other. So having an identical DNA means nothing.

Discussions about being Greek/Turk, GC/TC or Cypriot are useless, in my opinion. We'll have a solution in Cyprus when we accept and respect our differences in addition to our similarities. We don't have to be identical in order to get along.

[turkcyp]

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[Piratis]

I many times said that I don't care what each citizens beliefs are. Each citizen can be free to decide his/her religion and beliefs, speak whatever language he wants etc.

The question is not what we call ourselves. The question is: Can we be equal citizens in one country?

If what TCs want is a partnership/association between two otherwise independent states (e.g. Annan plan) then as a Greek Cypriot I say that such kind of partnership is not for my benefit.

One thing is to know that all Cyprus is my country and all Cypriots are my compatriots, and a whole another thing to know that one part of the island is not my country since I will have less rights there than in any other EU country.

The way I see it we will have to choose between "solution 1" and "solution 2".

The solution 1.5 that is: "As much "united" as is needed (=very loose partnership. e.g. Annan plan) for Turkish Cypriots to get recognition, get in the EU, improve their standards of living - and the GCs getting screwed", does not exist.