Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

has to reflect the realities on the ground.

One of the realities on the ground is that they unsurped and ethnically cleansed 180, 000 GCs and confescated their properties. One of the realities on the ground is that the GC refugee has every right in this place, whereas as settler has not.

I believe you did not understand the discussion I had previously with Viewpoint. In summary I expect the TCs to reciprocate the same undrerstanding for my concerns and interests like the one I will be extending towards them.
What you are proposing seems to be a one way approach which will never succeed. . .
So if you really want to consider the realities on the ground, here’s another reality on the ground: 90% of that land is stolen. Is this a reality or is it not???

[Pyrpolizer]

The realities which I am making reference to are beyond those of the material level [i.e. that some of the illegaly transported people from Turkey are to remain on the island given their having been married with TC's (as well as their children) is I beleive unavoidable and if I would begin to think it unhumanitarian] yet are intimately connected with it.

Yeah, right. The TCs accepted and cared for all our concerns so far, so it’s our turn to show our benevolence regarding the settlers now. What are you talking about man?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

For me people should be equal. 1 TC = 1 GC. The same way you do not accept if I will have more chances or more power than you, I do not accept it either.

I agree on an individual basis but your communities numerical supriority will ensure that TCs votes will only have 18% weight is this in itself giving the GCs the unfair advantage which the TCs fear so much?

You can have the first president if you wish. No problem with that.
Beyond that, you need to accept that Cyprus is one country and you will have GC president as well, either you like it or not.

I dont have a problem with a GC president (as long as it is not Tassos, no one from our dark past he conjours up to many bad memories) its the terms that are worrying, the TCs would only have accept a Gc president for 20 years, maybe rotating with say 7 years for a Gc and 5 years for a TC sounds more less open to them abusing the power to the determent of the other community.

Domination never. But Cyprus should act as one with democratic procedures. The balance is that TCs will have guaranteed proportional representation and veto power on certain important issues. Asking that TCs should have 50% power and veto power on all isues is not a balance, but instead you want everything.

How will you ensure that one community will not dominate the other? How will you ensure the politically manipulative GCs will not use all means at its disposal to dillute or even eradicate issues where TCs have veto rights?

We never had such opportunity. Even our constidution was forced from outsiders, not to mention their armies that never left.

It is alarming to hear you say this, what guarantee will I have that you will not say the same thing about any new agreement we signed?

TCs will influence all decisions. They can also have veto power on things that TCs could be affected in a different way than GCs. (e.g. religion and language)

Thank you. This is what we are looking for you acknowledgement that we shoudl be taken into account and that we are allowed to influence decision making mechanism. Please do not take this as negative because decisions which will effect all of us positively will never be opposed.

We are all just tokens that all together make up one country. Why should your token count 4.5 times more than mine?

What I was referring to was bein symbolic where you ahve no influence or impact if we are to be put in such a position its better not to enter such an agreement at all.

Can I ask the same? That the government that was chosen democratically can not take decisions on my behalf?
You either accept that you are part of one united Cyprus or you don't. I already told you that TCs can have things like guaranteed proportional representation, veto powers on certain issues etc.
If what you want is to run your own business by yourselves then what you do not support one unified country.

If we are to run a business jointly then shouldnt my opinion count as much as yours or should my opinion be heard and ignored? then whats the point of the jointly running a business?

Actually I have absolutely no problem if you run your own business just by yourselves. However our land falls within our business, not within yours. So if you want to run your own business alone, then you can take the villages that are exclusively TC and declare them independent. You can even build a wall around them if you want. No problem. But our land does not fall within your business.

I can always buy you out.......

[Jerry]

Protagorianos, when you have a conversation with someone do you use the same language that you use in your posts? I envy your command of English but some of your words and phrases are not easy to follow, you may find that your views are more easily understood if you refrain from writing "complicated" English since it is not the first language of some who use this site.

[andri_cy]

I have to say that I understood perfectly every little thing protagorianos typed up. I do not understand why everyone is freaking out.

[miltiades]

Protagorios wrote ::
"" I think that if one side does not at present feel its interests being represented by the other then beyond the democratic fashion with which the decision was taken the decision itself might indeed prove to be if not unjust towards the other, creative of schisms in the very process of trying to create a society defined by solidarity. Here of course, in Cyprus, we are in the very beginning (if that) of trying to achieve a society. I beleive then ..""

Can you elaborate further on this , especially the bit about "" one side does not at present feel its interests being represented by the other " So the G/C side does not feel that its interests are represented by the T/Cs !!!!

Sir , your English is beyond me , not so much the words that you use but the context that these words are being used. Its just that you are difficult to follow.

[Pyrpolizer]

I agree on an individual basis but your communities numerical supriority will ensure that TCs votes will only have 18% weight is this in itself giving the GCs the unfair advantage which the TCs fear so much?

The 18% is NOT a small weight at all. Imagine AKEL which is the biggest party has only 30%. The smallest party has about 4%. Another party that has only 9% consider themselves as "regulators" of everything because everybody is seeking their cooperation to pass his laws.

Anyway like I said, these matters should concern us after we damn find a workable solution, after we both build our good record of human rights and trust, after, after, after ….

Thank you. This is what we are looking for you acknowledgement that we shoudl be taken into account and that we are allowed to influence decision making mechanism. Please do not take this as negative because decisions which will effect all of us positively will never be opposed.

So you two agreed on something? Gooood!!

[andri_cy]

Piratis

I can always buy you out.......

I guess that would be one way to do it, but....that would happen only if he wanted to sell no?

[lysi]

The GC like to say they are the legit goverment of Cyprus and believe in human rights blah, blah, blah.
Hence my question is why have they not arrested even one of the EOKA murderes in the last 40 years and instead this year Tpap the Turk hater and the protector of the Hellenic state(sarcasm) is instead giving them meddles to be proud of all the TC and GC they murdered.

If this is the GC idea of human rights i spit on it and before twits like Piratis and Kifeas start to give it the "what about our HR and our properties" bullshit please stop and think you cannot claim that if you do not implement and bring to justice the murderers from EOKA.

This topic is about the EOKA murderers and nothing else.

WWW.ARMENIANGENOCIDE.ORG
WWW.KHRP.ORG
WWW.LOBBYFORCYPRUS.ORG
What about the turkish TMT & facist grey wolves murderers ?

[EUropean666]

Greek government jailed the ones that took part on the coup. Instead Ecevit should be trialed in Hague