Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

The only peaceful time and harmony I have recollections of or examples to draw from are the past 32 years…

During those 32 years (damn they were too much) both the GCs and the TCs learned their lesson didn’t they? Time to move forward .

[miltiades]

Indeed is time to move forward as one nation made up entirely of Cypriots .The quicker we start living together the better it will be for the future generations to come.

[rolo]

You are right. This problem exists everywhere there are minorities. For example does any hispanic have any chance to be elected president in the US? Or a muslim in any European Country? Or a Greek living in Constantinople becoming president of Turkey? On the other hand though you have to consider what real chance a simple white skin, christian protestant, average American has to be elected president of the US. One in 250 million? ? ?
So let the problems that affect some tiny elites be problems between those tiny elites. We (GCs+TCs) don’t care, and our everyday lives will not change one iota whoever of them is elected.

The real problems rise when there is discrimination against a specific minority in local authority bodies e. g Municipalities, at usual government jobs e. g Police, and at key Administrative positions e. g Ministers, district Police Superintentants etc etc.

So as far as our little island is concerned: We don’t have any past record of fair treatment to our TC minority compatriots due to the events of the 60s. We have not yet started living together to establish such a good record. So in all honesty I don’t expect the TCs to gamble their future by trusting the GCs to treat them fairly. The only way through is either a Federation or a Unitary state with 2 districts each one adminitrated mostly by GCs/TCs. So both the Gcs and the Tcs will establish their own good records.


NB. I believe the GCs will establish a better record.

i cant disagree with the above, (even though Turkey had a Kurdish President) so whats the problem? Is it a few percentage points relating to the size of TC district? Let the politicians bang it out at the table, and let tcs and gcs get on with building new freindship bridges.

[MR-from-NG]

During those 32 years (damn they were too much) both the GCs and the TCs learned their lesson didn’t they? Time to move forward .

Well said Pyrpolizer and everybody else, lets move on. Lets show the rest of the world what us Cypriots are all about. Whether GC or TC we are the nicest race on the planet. We love peace, we are kind and generous, we care and we feel pain for others. I've travelled all over the world, nothing compares to Cyprus and its people.

[miltiades]

Here Here , my honourable friend !
If you are a CYPRIOT SO AM I , IF YOU ARE A T/C SO AM I , IF YOU ARE A G/C SO AM I. WE ARE CYPRIOTS !"

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

If you are talking about being elected as a member of the parliament or something similar, then with the garnteened proportional representation we will have the exact same chances of being elected. E.g the 100GC voters will elect 10 MPs and the 20TC voters will elect 2TC. So I I would have 10/100 chance of being elected and you would have 20/2 chance of being elected wich is the same thing.

Piratis I understand where you are comingfrom but the real issues doesnt lie in the number of MPS from each side it is the power they have. You can have 90GCs and only 10TCs but if 5TCs vote are required on every decision you can seee the influence the TCs will have. You can have 50GCs and 50TCs but deision cna be passed with 49 votes, do you see the difference?

If you are talking about presidential elections, again I would be more than glad if you are given guarantees for your proportional representation. For example every 5 terms of president 1 should be a TC.
So I will have 4/100 chance to be elected and you will have 1/20 chance, which is again the same.

So we have to wait 20 years for a TC president a lot can happen in that time, how you feel if you had to wait 20years for a president you can trust.

As you wouldn't accept a system that would give to me 60% more chances of being elected, I also would not accept a system that would give to you more chances of being elected. We should all have the same chances and those that get elected should have the save power regardless of the race they belong.

There has to be a balance that will ensure no domiantion of one community over the other.

Is this acceptable to you? Or something that is unfair to you (e.g. me having more chances to be elected) is not accepted, while something that is unfair to me it is?

The power alloted to each community is more important than the split of members in ruling body.

Maybe you had a peaceful time for the past 32 years, but we never had such thing for the last 500 years, since the time you arrived on our island. If you call the past of GCs a "disaster" then what can we say about the past of Turks on this island?? So stop to pretend to be the victim. You have absolutely no right to ask for the violation of our human and democratic rights, and it is totally idiotic from you if you expect that we will ever accept such thing.

When did we have the first opportunity to rule ourselves? thats what i referred to as a disaster.

18% is what you are. If 18% is not a minority, then having your 18% power share means that you do not have a minority power share but an equal power share.

The 18% maybe a numerical minority but dont forget we are equal partners and decision effecting our community negatively should be influenced by TCs.

1) To be assimilated in a country under purely GC rule where you will be discriminated against.
The answer to this is a clear NO and I don't understand how you can say "purley GC" when you will have 18% proportional representation, including 1 in every 5 presidents. How is that "purely GC"??? It is purely Cypriot, and you are 18% of Cypriots!
Also, with your religion, language etc official and protected there is no way you will be assimilated. And along with your proportional representation you will also have your veto powers on important issues, so you can not be discriminated either, even if we wanted to do that.

If the başance is in favor of GCs 8 to 2 and they only need 6 votes to get decision through then I call that a GC state run by GCs and we TCs are just tokens to make up the numbers and falsely display to the world that TCs are not excluded from the running of their own country.

"we want to be able to control our own destiny"

You live in Cyprus which belongs to all Cypriots and you are 18% of Cypriots. If you want to control your own destiny alone do it, but Cyprus belongs to you only by 18% and with that 18% you can not control it. Get it?

Can we not control to the extent to protect our community from the 82% majority taking decsions on oue behalf that would have a negative impact on us? is this really asking for to much?

[Viewpoint]

The only peaceful time and harmony I have recollections of or examples to draw from are the past 32 years…

During those 32 years (damn they were too much) both the GCs and the TCs learned their lesson didn’t they? Time to move forward .

Did we really? we show no signs of it im afraid.

[Viewpoint]

So when you consider that and the fact that we live in a screwed up society where no GCs will vote for me and no TCs will vote for you in reality you have a head start of 60% of the vote which allows me no chance of being elected.

You are right. This problem exists everywhere there are minorities. For example does any hispanic have any chance to be elected president in the US? Or a muslim in any European Country? Or a Greek living in Constantinople becoming president of Turkey? On the other hand though you have to consider what real chance a simple white skin, christian protestant, average American has to be elected president of the US. One in 250 million? ? ?
So let the problems that affect some tiny elites be problems between those tiny elites. We (GCs+TCs) don’t care, and our everyday lives will not change one iota whoever of them is elected.

The real problems rise when there is discrimination against a specific minority in local authority bodies e. g Municipalities, at usual government jobs e. g Police, and at key Administrative positions e. g Ministers, district Police Superintentants etc etc.

So as far as our little island is concerned: We don’t have any past record of fair treatment to our TC minority compatriots due to the events of the 60s. We have not yet started living together to establish such a good record. So in all honesty I don’t expect the TCs to gamble their future by trusting the GCs to treat them fairly. The only way through is either a Federation or a Unitary state with 2 districts each one adminitrated mostly by GCs/TCs. So both the Gcs and the Tcs will establish their own good records.


NB. I believe the GCs will establish a better record.

They either chose to go live in the states or were born to that system we aware not. The majority of people in the USA do not vote for someone becuase the are Jewish or Mexican, they vote for the person they think will do the job best. They have matured we have not.
The majoirty of GCs would never vote for a TC candidate and vice versa that how we are and it will take many many years of goodwill and trust to reach such a goal.

Whats stopping them now, why dont they take steps to show the TCs exactly what you state above?

[miltiades]

My right honourable friend Viewpoint wrote:

"The majority of people in the USA do not vote for someone because the are Jewish or Mexican, they vote for the person they think will do the job best. They have matured we have not.
The majority of GCs would never vote for a TC candidate and vice verse that how we are and it will take many many years of goodwill and trust to reach such a goal. "

Precisely !!

[Pyrpolizer]

Whether GC or TC we are the nicest race on the planet. We love peace, we are kind and generous, we care and we feel pain for others. I've travelled all over the world, nothing compares to Cyprus and its people.

I totally agree with you. We are "good heart" people. It is very strange because supposely we come from different ethnicities, we should be different but we are not. This is the plain truth, I am not trying to flatter anyone. It is simply true.

Whats stopping them now, why dont they take steps to show the TCs exactly what you state above?

What did I state? I stated the minorities everywhere in the world don’t have a chance to enforce their own will. So everything depends on the maturity and the degree of civility of the majority to ensure that minorities have an effective say. You ask "what’s stopping them today?" The occupation what else?

Did we really? we show no signs of it im afraid.

OK let me just point you one of your own lessons: It was a mistake to trust your fate and future to a foreign Country i.e Turkey.