Cyprus-Forum.com

[theresa]

If and when the Island becomes "one" again, with a majority rule (GC) over - for instance adminstration departments, government offices etc etc, what happens to the actual infrastructure of the North? Like the local council (belidye) offices? Will all our dustmen, electricity workers, water department, communications etc etc all lose their jobs in favour of employing GCs because they after all they will be the majority? It is this question that is always on lips of people I talk to. Will Turkish language be acceptable in schools?
Tess

[miltiades]

All Cypriot ministries should have not only T/Cs but representatives from other minorities that have made Cyprus their country .English , Russian Eastern European , the mix would ensure fair hearings for all Cypriots.

[Viewpoint]

All Cypriot ministries should have not only T/Cs but representatives from other minorities that have made Cyprus their country .English , Russian Eastern European , the mix would ensure fair hearings for all Cypriots.

Will the majority being the GCs allow this? thats the million dollar question and one that TCs fear, GC administered human rights and democracy. No one wants to to risk jumping into that black hole.

[Piratis]

Does passing a law relieving tcs of all their land within 40 years accomplish that?

You mean the law you saw in your dream last night? Because such law exists only in your imagination, along most things that you say.

this will cemment further division.............what is your govt playing at? They must already own half the tc land in the south. Whay will they do with it give it back to them as part of some settlement, building bargaining chips for the next round of talks.

Basically your govt is holding them captive, they are prisoners on cyprus, if they leave cyprus to live in another country they lose their lands, which they will lose in forty years anyway. Your govt has built another layer of division.

They can return TOMORROW if they want. All they have to do is accept legality and respect the sovergnity of RoC.

The ones who keep our properties ILLIGALY is Turks and TCs, who took TWICE AS MUCH land from what they left behind.

Do the Math:

TC = 18%
GC = 82%

Currently: TC control illegally 37% (twice as much as they own) and GC only 67%.

What you want: For TCs to control even more and for GC even less.

This is a way only a super greedy thief like you could think.

[MR-from-NG]

What you want: For TCs to control even more and for GC even less.

37 is an odd number, how about rounding it off to 40%.

[Piratis]

Ok lets address what you call human rights and democracy and what I say will be GC administered human rights and democracy.

In a united Cyprus Piratis style we have GC majority rule becuase numerically they are much larger.

Piratis style? So do you claim that I am the USA government? Because I fully adopt to the letter the "style" as defined by the USA:

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/w ... hatdm2.htm

and human rights as defined by the UN:

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html


As I told you many times I would accept the democratic system of any other EU country. I would even accept the system of your "motherland" for Cyprus if you wish!!!

So where do you see "Piratis style"? In your dream?

Now tell me what is your style of human rights and democracy?

Can you show me another country that has such kind of "human rights" and "democracy" as you demand?

Or maybe what you demand for Cyprus does not exist anywhere else and it is your own style, custom made for just you, to fit your needs and outrageous demands only and violate our human and democratic rights?

Elected Government is GCs

No. Elected Government is what Cypriot people choose (=democracy), and we accept that TCs will have a guaranteed proportional representation in all governmental bodies.

Government posts are GCs

82% GCs and 18% TCs. If TCs are given more governmental posts than what their population percentage is, then a TC will have much more chances to have a governmental post than a GC, which means the GCs would not have equal opportunities which is a racist discrimination.

Administrative depts are GCs

82% GCs - 18% TCs.

Hasan applies for a job at Ministry for education, those evlauating his application are all GCs, can Hasan really expect fair treatment how will he know? how will he be sure that the Yorgo was was chosen because he was the better candidate and not because he is GC and the son of one of those GCs on board?

There will not be all GCs. It will be both GCs and TCs and even the minister of education could be a TC if thats one of the 1/5th (or 1/4th) of the ministries that TCs choose.

That Education ministry board that evaluated Hasans application needs to have TCs representation to ensure each application is treated fairly and that Hasan is left with no doubt in his mind that he lost the job on his merits and not because he is a TC.

Who said the opposite????????????????????????????
Where we disagree is that you want the 18% of TCs to have 50% representation in everything, where I say that TCs should have proportional representation something which is much more democratic and will give equal opportunities to all citizens without racist discriminations.

If and when the Island becomes "one" again, with a majority rule (GC) over - for instance adminstration departments, government offices etc etc, what happens to the actual infrastructure of the North? Like the local council (belidye) offices? Will all our dustmen, electricity workers, water department, communications etc etc all lose their jobs in favour of employing GCs because they after all they will be the majority? It is this question that is always on lips of people I talk to. Will Turkish language be acceptable in schools?
Tess

It happens what happens in all other countries in the world. Or do you think Cyprus is the only multi-ethnic country that exists?
And in addition to what happens in all other multi-ethnic countries in the world the TCs will have even more, such as guarantee proportional representation, Turkish as official language and veto powers on specific predefined matters. What else do you want? To screw us out of our human rights so you can better gain on our loss?

[Simon]

Good post Piratis.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Piratis style? So do you claim that I am the USA government? Because I fully adopt to the letter the "style" as defined by the USA:

As I told you many times I would accept the democratic system of any other EU country. I would even accept the system of your "motherland" for Cyprus if you wish!!!

So where do you see "Piratis style"? In your dream?

Piratis = GC = GC administered Human rights and Democracy.

You may say you will have the same car (human rights and deomcracy) as the USA but the way you drive that car is totally different from USA, now do you understand? I do not trust your driving on your own nor do I want to put my future in that car with you under your sole control.

Now tell me what is your style of human rights and democracy?
Or maybe what you demand for Cyprus does not exist anywhere else and it is your own style, custom made for just you, to fit your needs and outrageous demands only and violate our human and democratic rights?

Serbia Montenegro
Switzerland
Belgium

The above models can be adapted to suit out unique situation no country is the same as the other this is not like buy one size of democracy and human rights suits all. Its the size we have to get right so that we are comfortable with the fit that will allow democracy and human rights for all.

No. Elected Government is what Cypriot people choose (=democracy), and we accept that TCs will have a guaranteed proportional representation in all governmental bodies.

Now we are getting somewhere.

82% GCs and 18% TCs. If TCs are given more governmental posts than what their population percentage is, then a TC will have much more chances to have a governmental post than a GC, which means the GCs would not have equal opportunities which is a racist discrimination.

the 8GCs to 2 TCs is not the issue the issue is what effect can the 2TCs have on the decision making mechanism?

There will not be all GCs. It will be both GCs and TCs and even the minister of education could be a TC if thats one of the 1/5th (or 1/4th) of the ministries that TCs choose

Dont you not think that a balance should be placed in all ministeries to ensure no discrimination.

Who said the opposite????????????????????????????
Where we disagree is that you want the 18% of TCs to have 50% representation in everything, where I say that TCs should have proportional representation something which is much more democratic and will give equal opportunities to all citizens without racist discriminations.

The effectiveness of TC representation is more important than the numbers as I asked u above.

[Piratis]

Piratis = GC = GC administered Human rights and Democracy.

You may say you will have the same car (human rights and deomcracy) as the USA but the way you drive that car is totally different from USA, now do you understand? I do not trust your driving on your own nor do I want to put my future in that car with you under your sole control.

Again, the control will be proportional to population and all citizens will be equal. Each GC will have the same control as each TC. The control of Cyprus will be to Cypriots. Just like the control of USA belongs to USA citizens, and not to blacks, whites and Hispanics separately.

The "car" as you said will define the rules, which are democracy, human rights and the EU laws. Cyprus will have to follow a specific path, it can not turn to something different (e.g communism).

Within this limits you will have to accept that the way Cyprus is "driven" will depend on the population as a whole. You can not demand that the 18% (actually the 9.1%) should be able to stop the Cyprus "car" from moving just because it feels like, if the car is moving within the limits of human rights, democracy and EU laws. If the car tries to move out of these limits, then yes, you will have the veto power to stop it.

Serbia Montenegro
Switzerland
Belgium

Serbia and Montenegro are two separate countries. So your model for Cyprus is the one of two separate countries or the one that can be very easily be broken into 2 separate countries?
If you owned northern Cyprus (the way that Montenegrians own Montenegro, or the way that the population of each Swiss canton owns their canton) then I would have no problem. But understand that you can not be given the ownership of any part of our land. You have the 18% share of Cyprus as a whole, but no specific part belongs exclusively to you.

the 8GCs to 2 TCs is not the issue the issue is what effect can the 2TCs have on the decision making mechanism?

People are equal. Each TC can have the same effect as each GC.

Dont you not think that a balance should be placed in all ministeries to ensure no discrimination.

The correct proportional balance of 18%-82% yes.

The effectiveness of TC representation is more important than the numbers as I asked u above.

TCs will be fully represented and each TC representative will have the same effectiveness as each GC representative.

[MR-from-NG]

But understand that you can not be given the ownership of any part of our land. You have the 18% share of Cyprus as a whole, but no specific part belongs exclusively to you.

So you expect a TC living in Kyrenia, Nicosia etc for the last 30-40 years to pack his bags and move back to the house he lived in Paphos, limasol etc? You know that's not gonna happen, so why not forget this and put your energy into finding a solution that will be workable.
You know what the only workable solution is better than I do, you just cant bring yourself to admit it.