Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

AKEL through antros kyprianou , in a think-tank conference in brussels , gave publicly its main concerns. these are not the only but the main concerns for akel, antros kyprianou said. " i have to make clear that we are not planning to delete any rights the AP has given to our Turkish Cypriot compatriots. the nonproportional representation of the Turkish Cypriots in all the goeverment bodies and decisions of the federal states is not an obstacle for a solution. its not an obstacle the fact that in a federation all the decision will be taken with the agreement of the Turkish Cypriots. A.Kyprianou concequently presented the concerns of akel in four mail areas :

1. settlers : we are willing to accept a logical number of settlers staying after the solution. a number that will exceed the number of Turkish Cypriots is not accepted
2. quarantor rights " its not clear in AP how exactly the guarantor rights are interpreted"
3. Armies : the time for the withdrawal os the armies is too long , while in the end some will stay permanently
4. return and property : the timeline for return for no reason is too long , ,and those who will have the right of return will only receive 1/3 of their properties. there are so many "roofs" that return appears to be rather an exception , and not the rule

http://www.politis-news.com/cgibin/hweb ... rticles&-p

comments :
1. finally some clear position!!
2. the "functionality" of the plan doesnot appear to be a great concern. nor does a state that turns itself into community , etc etc.
3. their points are imo , quite logical. the only one that appears rediculous is two years after the NO , to speak about long timelines of return. the roofs and the rest of the points could indeed be improved.
4. if their concerns are indeed these , it makes me wonder what prevents negotiations to begin ? why are we wasting time ?

any comments on AKELs position (if indeed their position is this one ) ?

[Piratis]

Your translation is wrong. You wrote:

its not an obstacle the fact that in a federation all the decision will be taken with the agreement of the Turkish Cypriots.

What exactly did you translate to "all the decisions"?

What Kyprianou said is:

Δεν συνιστά ουσιαστικό εμπόδιο ότι χωρίς τη δική τους σύμφωνη γνώμη δεν θα μπορούν να λαμβάνονται σημαντικές αποφάσεις.

Which transtalets to:

"It is not a major obstacle that without their agreement no important decisions could be taken"

Therefore it is an obstacle, but not a major one, if the agreement of TCs is needed to take important decisions.

In fact this is what I suggested many times in the past. That the agreement of TCs should be necessary to a predefined list of important issues (changes to the constidution etc). However an 18% minority can not block any decision. Such thing is totally undemocratic.

Beyond that, what the AKEL "think-tanks" think does not necessarily represent the majority of Greek Cypriots. When it comes to the Cyprus problem the majority agrees with Papadopoulos line, and this is shown from several polls.

[cypezokyli]

Δεν συνιστά ουσιαστικό εμπόδιο η δυσανάλογη με τους πληθυσμιακούς συσχετισμούς συμμετοχή των Τουρκοκυπρίων σε όλα τα όργανα και τις αποφάσεις του ομοσπονδιακού κράτους

besides, the "obstacle" is not present , in the 4 changes akel seems to be interested in. once again you are missing the point , and you concentrate of my wrong translation.
why did akel excplicitly said that ?
why did it went on saying

πρέπει να τονίσω ότι δεν στοχεύουμε σε αφαίρεση δικαιωμάτων, ακόμη και προνομίων, που παραχωρούσε το σχέδιο Ανάν στους Τουρκοκύπριους συμπατριώτες μας.

even if it is an obstacle , it seems that akel doesnot have as a target to change it.


you are right , my translation was wrong.
but its the juice of the post , you didnot answer to.

[cypezokyli]

Beyond that, what the AKEL "think-tanks" think does not necessarily represent the majority of Greek Cypriots. When it comes to the Cyprus problem the majority agrees with Papadopoulos line, and this is shown from several polls.

are you trying to say that akel and tpap have different opinions ?

in a way i agree with you.

as to how majorities could form , is a whole different story...

[Piratis]

Δεν συνιστά ουσιαστικό εμπόδιο η δυσανάλογη με τους πληθυσμιακούς συσχετισμούς συμμετοχή των Τουρκοκυπρίων σε όλα τα όργανα και τις αποφάσεις του ομοσπονδιακού κράτους

This is talking about disproportional participation. Disproportional participation doesn't mean that the 18% should get the 50%!

besides, the "obstacle" is not present , in the 4 changes akel seems to be interested in.

I quote what you wrote:

these are not the only but the main concerns for akel

So even AKEL has other concerns. For AKEL those other concerns might not be the main, but for many others they are.

are you trying to say that akel and tpap have different opinions ?

Everybody has a different opinion. The point is what the opinion of the majority is.

as to how majorities could form , is a whole different story...

The referendum on Annan plan showed that most people do not follow their parties like sheep when it comes to the solution of the Cyprus problem.
To receive a majority of "yes" from GCs there is only one way: Present them a fair democratic plan that will respect their human rights.

[cypezokyli]

you are still playing with words.

besides , what is important is what the akelites have to say about the above. they are the biggest party in the parliament. if they disagree with the above position of their party they should panish them. we have elections very soon.

your opinion is known and respected , but you are not an akel supporter
whats important, is if the akelites agree with their party on the above "main concerns" that need to be changed , and what they are not after changing.

[Piratis]

you are still playing with words.

I am simply translating what they say. Maybe they are playing with words?

besides , what is important is what the akelites have to say about the above. they are the biggest party in the parliament. if they disagree with the above position of their party they should panish them. we have elections very soon.

AKEL was punished in the elections already. Besides it is clear that people do not vote based only on the Cyprus Problem, otherwise DISY + EDI could have not received together more than 24%.

The referendum was the most direct and clear answer of the Cypriot people to the Annan plan, and minor changes will not change this opinion.

your opinion is known and respected , but you are not an akel supporter
whats important, is if the akelites agree with their party on the above "main concerns" that need to be changed , and what they are not after changing.

I am a supporter of nobody. However my vote was one of those that made up the 34% that AKEL got in the previews elections.
One side of my family are "traditional" AKEL supporters but even them are no so much of "sheep" that would just do whatever AKEL commands in case of another referendum.

The akelites that liked the Annan plan have already voted "yes" for it. Minor changes to Annan plan will not make any difference. What will have an effect is if AKEL openly supports a plan. But it that new plan is based on Annan plan then the difference that AKEL support will make would not be enough to turn the 24% to 51%. Fortunally the sheep are not as many as you might think.

AKEL knows this very well, and although I disagree with many of their opinions, I still believe they are a responsible party.
Therefore I don't think they would like to see a referendum with lets say 60% "no" and 40% "yes", since that would create even more problems and division among Greek Cypriots (not to say that it will also have very negative concequences to their own party).

Therefore the aim of any responsible Greek Cypriot politician should be a plan that can be accepted by at least the 75% of Greek Cypriots.