Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

in cases like ours the biggest challange for the mediators is to solve the problem of security. if they fail to do that their plan has no chances of success. in our case :

we (the gcs) are afraid of the turkish army - for historical reasons
the tcs are afraid of us being the majority- for historical reasons. concequently a demilitarized cyprus is for the tcs an insecure place. in that repsect the number of soldiers that were proposed to stay , were imo quite sensible. I would have prefered though instead of greeks and turks , that the respective armies were made (same numbers as AP) from gc and tcs.
i cannot see any other way to solve the security problem and have both sides satisfied.

the same works for the guarantor powers
it is a security factor for the tcs and an insecurity factor for the gcs.
here, as I said before, for me it is irrelevant , bc turkey will always attack cyprus (irrespective of the fact that it has rights or not) if we decide to harm the tcs. the recent israeli attacks in libanon should give us a clue how these things work

last, in this field, is third party guarantees. in our case the only party who could act as "third" party was the UN. studies of how civil wars ended , have shown that when a third party is present to monitor the terms of the agreement (mainly demobilisation) , the two parties do in general do not breach the agreement. in that respect AKELs call for guarantees from the UN, a week before the refferendum , were actually quite sensible.

[andri_cy]

I know all this which is why I ask how come the Cyprus administration went along with it in the first place?
Why they didn't reject it in the first place rather than go through the farce of a referendum?

Because we have a democracy and ultimately wether leadership supports it or not, big issues like that should always be decided upon by the people not just 12 members or so of an elected government. It was done right. The people should decide on big issues for the people not just the president. So if Pap liked the AP and the people said no, it was their decision and they got to decide for their own fate.

[andri_cy]

we (the gcs) are afraid of the turkish army - for historical reasons
the tcs are afraid of us being the majority- for historical reasons. concequently a demilitarized cyprus is for the tcs an insecure place. in that repsect the number of soldiers that were proposed to stay , were imo quite sensible. I would have prefered though instead of greeks and turks , that the respective armies were made (same numbers as AP) from gc and tcs.

Of course everyone feels unsafe and they have the right and the historical events to back it up. But I dont think that dismantling the GC army and having no backup plan for security is the answer if Turkey were to keep her troops in Cyprus. I think the proposition of GC's and TC's being in charge of security is the best one, but I do not think any of the people up high are reading this. Also, flying Turkish and Greek flags(miltiades mentioned it) at police stations and other government buildings is ridiculous. We are Cypriots and we should fly the Cyprus flag. Some of us have the Greek culture and language and some of us the Turkish; other than that, we are all Cypriots.

[cypezokyli]

But I dont think that dismantling the GC army and having no backup plan for security is the answer if Turkey were to keep her troops in Cyprus.

ahem***ahem***
it is true that the gc army would have been dismantled.
it is also true that some turkish troops would have stayed.
dont you think though , it is an importnat information to add, that there would have stayed a number of greek soldiers - more than the number of turkish soldiers ?

if you skip that small , diny detail, you can reach different conclusions

[andri_cy]

I am not going to claim I have read the Ap cause I havent. I just know what I have read on here since I joined the forum. Even there were Greek soldiers, which of course would even the score out a bit, I think they should let the Cypriots deal with it and get the hell out. And I mean both Greece and Turkey

[Pyrpolizer]

I know all this which is why I ask how come the Cyprus administration went along with it in the first place?
Why they didn't reject it in the first place rather than go through the farce of a referendum?

Because the plan (AP 3 ) said that any negotiations should be according to the parameters of the plan. Our side knew that they could prove all their demands if this condition was met. And expected any arbitration to be in line with this principle. So they expected to end up with at least an almost "affordable" plan.
The UN however under pressure from the Americans not only violated this principle but went along satisfying all the Turkish demands. ALL those demands were outside and beyond the parameters of the plan, turning the solution into a plain legalising of the results of invasion.

He is not saying what this equal 6 000 will be 3 000 for both sides and after that will be 650 Turks and 950 Greeks.

First read the Plan before opening your mouth and telling all sorts of nonsense.
See Annex V page 162 of AP5.(you can download it from http://www.cyprus.gov.cy/)

Within the most critical period of the first 29 months there would be a proprtionally equal reduction of forces.Within the first 4 months the forces would reduce by 20% and then gradually 5% every 6 months.Do you know what this means? It means that whatever effect the 38,000 Turkish army can have against us illegally today, will continue to exist legally for 2.5 whole years after we presumably sign our "peace" agreement!!
And not only that…After those 29 months the plan talks for other arrangements which would lead by 2011 -7 years (!!!) after the implementation date to 6000 military on each side. If you think this was a safe arrangement, then what can I tell you?

The 650/900 military forces that the plan talks about, is well into the future ( I doubt you even know the exact date) and is nothing but a lollipop for people who have no more I.Q than that of children. What defines our safety is not the final number of 650/900 but the number of soldiers in the meantime.
As you can see even for this aspect that has to do with our life and death, the AngloAmericans and their Niger puppet, simply tried to push us another cuccumber.

[Socrates]

Pyrpolizer if you think what the 35 000 army can leave in one day you are dreaming and generally as I said you are not saying anything your mind is full with air. So do not disturb me I can’t speak with air

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyrpolizer if you think what the 35 000 army can leave in one day you are dreaming and generally as I said you are not saying anything your mind is full with air.

No I don’t think they can leave within one day, I think they can leave in 1-3 months and THEN have the agreement implemented NOT before.

Nobody can force me to accept 80% -5% of them every 6 months to be my "peace" guardians for 29 months. And then wait for 7( !!!) years until the military forces become equal! In fact nobody can force me to accept such numbers even for one second!

Anyway the point is not that. The point is that you came here saying that our Great President Honourable Mr Tassos Papadopoulos was spreading fear by hiding the fact that only 650/900 soldiers would finally stay. Our Honourable President did not hide anything, because everybody knew that. (except you of course)
The point is that you and others like you, don’t even know exactly when the military forces would reach that number and what their number would be during the critical periods of 2.5-7 years after the agreement.

Tell me Socrates how many years after the agreement the Turkish soldiers would become 650??? I bet you don’t know.

So do not disturb me I can’t speak with air

I know you are a disturbed person, there is no need to repeat it all the time. However as long as you choose to be in this forum writting you nonsense, be sure I will be disturbing you all the time.

[Socrates]

Pyrpolizer you great leader have said an amount of lies and exaggerated almost in every word of his speech

You are not capable to make conversation because your obviously fantastic and your mind flies with the wind.

Mr PapaD in the above part of his speech he said what there is expansion of the interfere rights of Turkey were there is not an expansion but actually there is limitation.

If you can’t understand this simple thing you will not be able ever to understand what the whole speech of him was a pure propaganda.

I think of you what you are an old man with your mind foul of air were this criminals have put you and you are emotionally exaggerate and it’s impossible for anyone reasonable to make conversation with you.

[Kifeas]

I know all this which is why I ask how come the Cyprus administration went along with it in the first place?
Why they didn't reject it in the first place rather than go through the farce of a referendum?

This is a good question, but I will answer it for you if you or anyone else can possibly tell me why the UN and the Anglo-Americans, after 29 years of fooling around since 1974, and allowing Turkey amble time to freely consolidate its fait accomplices on the ground, decided in November 2002 to put in front of us the first version of the first ever detailed such plan, a plan which I wonder whether had they put in front of us back in 1974 or 75 -a time during which 150,000 refugees were living in tents, if we still would have been able to accept.