Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Which are the GC members of this forum (if any) that would have returned to their homes under GC administration if the Annan plan was accepted?

I know that polls have been made that measure the acceptance of the Annan plan among refugees. Has any poll measured the acceptance of Annan plan separately just for those refugees that would have returned under GC administration?

[Kifeas]

Which are the GC members of this forum (if any) that would have returned to their homes under GC administration if the Annan plan was accepted?

I know that polls have been made that measure the acceptance of the Annan plan among refugees. Has any poll measured the acceptance of Annan plan separately just for those refugees that would have returned under GC administration?

Yes, there are such polls that were made after the refferendum (exit polls.)

Kyrenians: 87% rejection
Morfou area (all supposed to return under GC state): 67% rejection.
Entire famagusta district (incl. karpasia): 71% rejection.
Varoshia town (all returning under G/C state): 56% rejection.

[Socrates]

Morfou area (all supposed to return under GC state): 67% rejection.

Varoshia town (all returning under G/C state): 56% rejection.

This shows exactly the fanatism and the blackness of our situation if it’s true.

And I really hope what this people will eventually be informed correctly because in the end no one will believe us what we want a solution.

At a recent poll (it’s published on the net) the 35% of our people believes what the best solution is the partitionand only 12% of the TC’s want a partition.

This poll question was if the partition is the best solution an acceptable situation or the worst can happen and the 35% have voted what this is the best solution.

And there is the previous example of the 50% what they prefer partition from a solution based on BBF.

While this situation will still be build from the psychopaths of our government and media there is always the partition Montenegro scenario and this was the warnings of Campari (no Martini) what if this new process will collapse the Montenegro issue will arise.

And the commission issue is building also a road to that direction because if this court will consider by ECHR as legal then the TC will have the ability to vote for their independence.

This is not threats any more this is the nice presentation of reality.

We are not alone in this world and if we want rights we must be ready to accept our responsibility and leave villa and milla and pseftopalikarismous because by our actions will give to Turkey and not to TC’s a part of the island.

[Socrates]

The BB F is our fault

When Kliridis and Lisaridis and other politicians suggested the Multi circuit federation Makarios insist what this can’t work because we can’t live together.

And we’ve created this need for the BBF and we was suggested what the 25% can be the TC territory and after 30+ years the 29% was very close in what we was actually asking for all those years.

We had the right to sugest to the international community un workable solution and we suggested the BBF and we can’t in any way over pass our political choices.

If we will achieve a better deal there will still be the TC and GC authority so the above ridiculous polls are directing us to the final division and this is the obvious reality.

[Socrates]

As about the above question I’m a refuge and my father village was under TC territory and I can understand what there will be difficulties to live under TC authority but I’m experience the same thing here in the GC authority since I’ve come to home after 15 years and the society think me as a stranger, I can fully understand what there will be problems with the TC people but I can trust Talat and some other politician more than ours so YES I’ll go to my father village because in my whole life I try to find the place I belong because they have cut my roots and they have destroy our society with lira villa and milla.

And this will be a nice chance to face our history and our responsibility and maybe eventually will make us understand some deeper human values than lira villa and milla.

[Kifeas]

And we’ve created this need for the BBF and we was suggested what the 25% can be the TC territory and after 30+ years the 29% was very close in what we was actually asking for all those years.

This is the core and the essence of issue that you do not mean to understand. The critical difference between what we GCs menat to have accepted as a BBF, and what the Annan plan offered, was the fact that the whatever territory percentage that would be regarded as an area administrated by a TC community majority presence, would have been a mere internal administrative arrangement that would divide the area of Cyprus into two administrative regions (zones,) with some degree of internal administrative self-ruling to be exercised by (all) the residents of each region regardless of their ethnic origin, and not into two exclusively ethnically owned territories by virtue of separate inherent ethnically based natural right.

The two states (zones) will not be regarded in any constitutional or institutional way, form or shape, as the separately inherently owned territories, one for each of the two communities, as you put it above and as the Annan plan provided it, but rather two areas which will simply be administrated internally by their residents, in each of which it will be so arranged and happen that each community will have a majority residential presence.

The Annan plan assumed that the North (T/C) state is the acknowledged natural historical territory (homeland) of the TC "people" alone, and so did for the South (G/C) state, which both come together and form and bond in-between them, as it would have been in a case of a confederation.

The GCs have historical, cultural, religious and other natural and existential rights in the area that will be administrated under a TC residency majority in the north, something which the Annan plan formula completely disregarded and assumed this is the exclusive homeland of the T/Cs, thus brushing all the above under the carpet. The same can be said about the equal and parallel rights of the TC community in the south.

Strict bi-communality was something that was meant to be included, expressed and observed into the central federal government constitution (i.e. ethnically split and based senate,) as was also included in the 1960 constitution, and it doesn't mean that it should also be transcended into a strict bi-communality on the ground (i.e. two ethnically based and inherently owned zone structures,) under the covering concept of bi-zonality. Bi-zonality and bi-communality are two separate concepts, and not concepts essentially meaning the one and the same, and thus also freely used interchangeably. They represent two distinct and separate concepts or levels of governance, and their only relationship (between them) is that the majority of residents of each one of the two zones will come from the members of each one of the two communities respectively, without this implying that the each of the two communities is also the inherent natural owner of each of the two states respectively.

Try to understand and digest the difference between the two concepts, the Annan plan (a confederation /loose federation between two separate ethnically owned and based state structures,) and what the G/C side is ready to accept -as I described it above. The Annan plan formula is very prone and can easily lead in the future into splitting opportunities and options like the Serbia /Montenegro or the Czechoslovakian cases, regardless of the fact that there will be prohibiting provisions in the federal constitution, simply because the “inherent” ethnic ownership basis of the two areas (zones) became an institutionalised ingredient of the same constitution, and thus it indirectly legitimises the splitting on a purely ethnic basis, should the central federal government proves to be ineffective and inefficient in its functioning. And we all know how such a government can easily be made to be proved ineffective and inefficient, should one of the two sides chooses to do so.

[Piratis]

I can understand what there will be difficulties to live under TC authority but I’m experience the same thing here in the GC authority since I’ve come to home after 15 years and the society think me as a stranger, I can fully understand what there will be problems with the TC people but I can trust Talat and some other politician more than ours

This explains a lot. So I was right that your reaction and hate toward Greek Cypriots is a result of bitterness due to your personal issues. Where did you came from and why you say that society treats you as a stranger?

Kifeas, thanks for the poll results. It appears that refugees that would not return under GC administration have voted "no" in a much greater percentage than the average, while the opposite is true for the refugees that would return under GC administration.

I believe that in the case of refugees their short-term personal gain/loss was one of the most important factors when they decided what to vote.

Personally I wouldn't blame the refugees that voted "yes" so they would get either all their property back or "something which is better than nothing". I believe that these people make up the largest part of that 24% that voted "yes" followed by a much lower percentage of "dreamers" followed by some people that voted just what their party told them. (something which is true for part of the "no" voters as well)

So what we had were 2 sides that felt strongly about their choices. If we consider that we all knew what outcome such referendum would have, what was the reason that a plan with no chance of success was placed in referendum?

Apart from giving an excuse to Turkey, could it have also been another "divide and rule" policy against us?

[Piratis]

Kifeas, thanks for the analysis! I hope everybody will read it carefully

[Socrates]

Piratis you are to well sitting your nice ass. This is a common problem from the most people that try to live in a new society.

I was treaded like a tourkosporos stranger in a Greece city I was and I was treaded like a kalamaras in Cyprus.

You try to present our society as a heroic one and not even you believe this bullshits.

Lira villa and milla is this society about and you can still bullshiting were everyone (even you) knows what our society is going to worst every day.

I’ll read what kifeas said.

[Piratis]

I was treaded like a tourkosporos stranger in a Greece city I was and I was treaded like a kalamaras in Cyprus.

Is it maybe because you get offended too easily? "Kalamaras" is a common nick name for people from Greece.

I've seen racism against Sri Lankes, Arabs etc and a negative stereotyping of some others (e.g. girls from Russia), but apart from the innocent nick name I have never seen a person from Greece to be mistreated due to his origin (if we exclude Pontians)

Piratis you are to well sitting your nice ass. This is a common problem from the most people that try to live in a new society.

My girlfriend is not Cypriot and I can see the problems, don't worry. I am at immigration offices at least twice evrey year.

However my attitude is that we should fight against these things and correct them, not to just destroy Cyprus by making racism, and discriminations legal and required just to punish the "evil" Cypriots.