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THE SAVAGES STRIKE AGAIN

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby Kikapu » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:30 pm

miltiades wrote:And more blacks committing disproportionate by their numbers crimes is not My opinion . It is a fact !
The treatment of blacks by the Western world was abysmal but the West moves on and makes amends .


Miltiades,

I have finally found some time to answer your above statement. In the USA, the black population is around 10%, and yet there're more than 30% blacks in jail. So you said, well, the blacks commit more crime. Well, that is flat out wrong, and it borders nothing more than racist and racial discrimination, that most whites in the USA grow up with, most particularly in the Middle and Southern States, where slavery was most popular. Had you said, most blacks get convicted and put in jail than whites, then I would have agreed with you. You may be wondering what the difference is.

First of all, there are many different reasons why most blacks commit crimes, that their white neighbours do not commit, the same kind of crimes, but instead, they commit other kinds of crimes that deemed as not serious. For example, if you're black, you have everything going against you, from legal, social and economical aspects of life in America. In the eyes of many, they have the attitude that, "it would have been better, had they stayed slaves, then we wouldn't have all these problems", so when a young black kid, from a poor backgroung, who has dropped out of school coming from a broken home decides to sell drugs to make some money, to tens of white kids who has gotten the money from daddy, only the black kid ends up going to jail and not the white kids buying the drugs, which is also illegal by the way. So daddy hires an attorney to represent the white kid, while the black kid gets a court appointed attorney, who may have hundreds of cases, can only do the bare minimum, as to meet the obligations of the law, that the defendent was represented by a counsel.

The white kid is going to get off with a warning, or at most have to do a community service, perhaps by going to local school to tell the kids why they should not do drugs, while in the meantime, he is at it again, but don't worry, because daddy is a up standing business men in the local community, so there's no chance in hell, that his kid will end up in jail. You can multiply this example with every situation you can think of like, prostitution, joy ride in a stolen car, stealing some peanuts from the stores shelf, reckless driving and the end results will be the same, and that is, more crimes will be commited by whites, but more blacks will go to jail. Did you know, that in most American States and cities, there's a term used, which is "driving black". This is when you'll most probably get pulled over for no reason at all, except the cop will make sure he can find a reason just to go on a fishing expedition, until they find some thing, and bingo your name comes back with past legal history and a joint in your pocket. Yes Miltiades, it will be another trip to the front of the judge. Of most of the whites that do end up in jail, are the ones that have a similar backgroung to the black kid.

So you see Miltiades, the court system is "colour blind". This was suppose to be a positive thing, except in the USA, the courts only see white for innocent and black for guilty, or rich for innocent and poor for guilty. And lets not forget all the "white collar" crimes that is not just the colour of the shirt that one wears, but almost 100% crimes commited by whites, that it is mostly handled under "civil case" and not "criminal case", which hardly anyone goes to jail.

As far as your statement, that "the treatment of the blacks by the Western World was abysmal" is also incorrect. As soon as you replace the word "WAS" to "IS", then we can all go to bed with the truth, but not with a clear conscience. So, how fair did you say our courts were again, in the Western Civilization to it's citizens.??
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Postby miltiades » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:39 pm

Of course I disagree with your analysis. There are thousands upon thousands of Black Americans that are successful , not to mention Colin Powell , Jessie Jackson , Condoleeza Rice etc etc etc.
The court system is as fair as can be , don't forget that the court system includes a lot of Blacks.
The excuse that you use is a flimsy one and one that the perpetrators always use , Its because I'm black. !
Would you say the African blacks , South Africa , Zimbabwe are better treated in their respective counties ? I think they would jump at the opportunity to swap places with the American blacks.
Don't forget that it is American justice that forced one of their Presidents to resign.
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Postby cypezokyli » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:08 pm

miltiades , cant you see the socio-ecomonomical factor , that kikapu is trying to emphasize ?
i was in NY three months ago , and even though i found it the greater city i ever vicited , one has to be blind not to notice , that there no white bus drivers , or waiters , or on the cash desk.
in the country with the most lawyers per head i hope you understand the difference between someone who can afford a good lawyer and the one who cannot.

your argumentation is too simplisitc sometimes.
why were the victims of katrina mostly blacks ?
let me guess.... there is no black gold medalist in swiming , so i guess it is bc whites could swimm while the blacks couldnt.

america is a great land , but it is not a fairy tale land.
honestly, i never met an american in europe who would say the things that you say.

................
ofcource they took a president to court.
but as usual you only present one side of the coin.
there was also the case of an american president being shot - with high chances being shot, from the goverment apparatus itself. his brother was also shot , and as far as i can recall , there was no justice....
unless you believe ofcource that it was oswald.... with what you wrote up to now , i wouldnt be surprised :roll:
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Postby Kikapu » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:37 pm

miltiades wrote:Of course I disagree with your analysis. There are thousands upon thousands of Black Americans that are successful , not to mention Colin Powell , Jessie Jackson , Condoleeza Rice etc etc etc..


I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to know why there are more blacks in jail than white, percentage wise, and not number of successful blacks, and if you look at it, percentage wise, you will find more successful whites than blacks, so what's your point. Don't forget, slavery has been done away with 150 years ago, so sure some blacks will make it, if most of them play white mens game. There're even very rich and successful American Indians, but for the most part, they are on the reservations, in the dust of the wind, that blows across their land, that has been taken away from them. So they to should be greatful also, that they live in America.!!!
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Postby miltiades » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:44 pm

No Kikapu I don't want to know why there are more blacks than whites in prisons .I already know , and so does every one else. There is a jury system made up of 12 just mens and women , black , white , Hispanics and generally any one one on the electoral register.
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Postby Kikapu » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:20 pm

miltiades wrote:No Kikapu I don't want to know why there are more blacks than whites in prisons .I already know , and so does every one else. There is a jury system made up of 12 just mens and women , black , white , Hispanics and generally any one one on the electoral register.


And I'm telling you the reasons why that is the case for the blacks and for the whites.
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Postby miltiades » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:08 pm

Cyperzokyli , what exactly are you trying to prove , is it that in America there are poor blacks who can not afford the best lawyers that money can buy and therefore the Juries find them guilty ?
We all know that money is definitely not a hindrance when faced with any of life's problems , be it health , or indeed faced with a legal matter.You give me the impression that you dislike the USA immensely , and that you consider my views on the Western world to be extremely biased . Let me just clarify something. I do believe beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Western world on balance offers it's citizens equal protection under the law , offers the individual the freedoms that are not available any where else , and that given the opportunity every citizen of the third world would happily settle in the Western world.
Judging by your views on the suicide issue , I'm afraid without appearing to be rude, I cant take your .... the socio-ecomonomical factor , that kikapu is trying to emphasize ? """


"""i was in NY three months ago , and even though i found it the greater city i ever vicited , one has to be blind not to notice , that there no white bus drivers , or waiters , or on the cash desk""" as a serious point of discussion. Are you really blaming America , or indeed Britain for that matter , for the majority of bus drivers and waiters being Black ?? What do you expect the Government to do ,dismiss the blacks and employ whites , of course the majority are blacks doing an honest days work. Nothing wrong with driving a bus.

I still stand by everything that I , a 60 year old , has over the years formulated as the reality in this world , that America , the home for so many people from all over the world , the land of opportunity for millions of people, is the greatest superpower this world has ever had and I hope it carries on in the next century too , the repercussions that a mighty China or India or Iran would have on the world would be catastrophic for those who like me believe in freedom , equality and human rights, and a united world .
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Postby cypezokyli » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:01 pm

No, i do not hate the states.
but them being the most powerful state are inevitably under the biggest critisism.
besides the fact that they are the most powerful , doesnot mean that i dont reserve my right to critisize them (albeit in vain)

your assumptions about china , are exactly that : assumptions. china might or might not be worse than the US if it ever turns to be the most powerful nation. the chances are that it will be the same. let me inform you that the average gc including our president prefer china from the US. let me remind you that the term anglo-americans with all the negative connotations it carries is not sth that i repeat everyday , but our elected coalition.
i have always tried to argue that their role in the cyppro has been exagerated.

now back to the US , as the leader of the world. if we compare them with all other hegemons throughout history , they are no worse or no better. they are actually the same. there is no doubt that america has given jobs and opportunities to many people in the world. but, that doesnot necessarily needs to justify their foreign policy.
a foreign policy (just like all superpowers in history) is driven by pure self interest. and thats where i disagree with you. that you honestly believe that their actions are driven by western values of democracy and human rights. to believe that, is the least naive, imo.
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Postby cypezokyli » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:25 pm

anyway , lets solve solve this with some satire . how about that ?

http://www.jibjab.com/JokeBox/JokeBox_J ... movieid=65

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Kikapu » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:44 pm

miltiades wrote:Cyperzokyli , what exactly are you trying to prove , is it that in America there are poor blacks who can not afford the best lawyers that money can buy and therefore the Juries find them guilty ?
.


Having lived 25 years of my adult life in the States, the quick answer to the above statement is "YES", but your original statement was that, blacks commit more crime than whites, hence the fact there are more blacks than whites in jail, percentage wise, and my answer was, that there are more crimes commited by whites, percentage wise, is just that most of them do not end up in jail, due to money and and colour of their skin. If you are a "white trash" then you're in the same situation as a poor black person. I'm talking about the American legal and court system, so don't jump on the "hate America" wagon right away. You're beginning to sound like all the "right wingers" in the USA, using this line, because they can't defend their argument.
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