Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

And either we like it or not we are in the west side but this doesn’t cut our right to criticize the USA actions

i agree. that is exactly what i am trying to point out. that in war shit happens. it has always been like that and it will always been like that. attrocities do not have a race religion ethnicity class or sex. and it is the continued concetration of critisizing only one group that makes attrocities that irritates me. the islam , the barbarians , the animals... i mentioned WWII , africa , US action but the motive doesnt seem to change - islam , islam , islam, islam, islam ,islam...

check miltiades posts , and count how many times he refered to islam and london. and then search how many times he reffered to child soldiers. the human security report of 2005 refers to 300000 child soldiers in conflict today. in 75% of armed conflicts in 2005 child soldiers were used. mostly in africa. nothing to do with islam. actually comparatively , the crimes done by islamist fanatics are minimal. i know that miltiades condemns those actions. but what irritates me , is that he wrote so many posts on islamist barbarians , and not a single one on child soldiers. or is it more ethical to steal a kid , give him a gun and teach it how to kill - in comparison to a suicide bomber ?
my question is very simple :
why numerous number of posts on islamist terrorist attacks , and no posts on child soldiers (who are obviously a greater human problem) ?

the point i want to make , is that miltiades overemhpasizes the crimes of only one group , and he forgets all the crimes of all the rest of the groups. ofcource he condemnds them in general , but not with the same passion he condemns that one group. his posts are a proof of that. and imo he is simply a victim of the media propaganda in the country he lives in.

did you people wondered why we know the names of the captured israeli soldiers , but we only know numbers of the dead libanese ? dont the libanese have names? dont they have a personality ? .... i ll better stop here....

[Socrates]

My hobby is to study conspiracy theories for fun like some others reading comics I study theories about the Jews about the extraterrestrial were ruling us about the agent gods from the planet Sirius and many different mythologies of all religions and ideologies and I know very well how people make mythologies to explain what happens in the world but in my experience on all this alternative information I’ve to admit what something is not quite well about the USA leadership and their aims. I do not wish to open a conspirology issue because is very easy to humiliate your self if you fall in that trap but by my information on real events like the bombing of the pentagon in united states(I do not wish to talk about it) something is not quite well. Something is wrong, but in the other hand we are civilians of Cyprus and we have many problems already to put consirology on our heads and we must understand our position and what to break the relationship with the big west powers is not wise move and that is proven by our history. We must understand what diplomacy is and to put our position in a political and social environment were we will not be in the eastern way because this thing can only damage us. This does not mean to not criticize but for example to support Miloyevic in Yugoslavia issue it was a big mistake and for our politicians and for the people. Milosevic was a criminal who have been destroyed from other criminals. like Sadam was and I think what this should be our position, if they don’t want America to harm them they should seat on their eggs and try to evolve their civilization with out harming ours, USA is the leader and we must accept that and try to solve first our problems. Here in Cyprus and Greece there is people mostly communists were they wear t-shirts with Bin Landen face because they hate Americans, this is a kind of sickness, even if is something wrong with the America leadership their society and democracy is one of the best of all times and we must not excuse killings of innocent people in this way. That’s way my suggestion is to try to be fear on our criticism and to make political decision according to our interests based on reality. Something were Cyprus and Cypriots never did that’s way by my opinion Miltiadis have some right on his reaction based on that fact.

[miltiades]

The biggest ever danger facing the western world today is not the child soldiers of Africa , but the fanatics of Bin Ladin & co. They , it seems , are according to CYPERZOKYLI .

"""actually comparatively , the crimes done by islamist fanatics are minimal. i know that miltiades condemns those actions. but what irritates me , is that he wrote so many posts on islamist barbarians , and not a single one on child soldiers. or is it more ethical to steal a kid , give him a gun and teach it how to kill - in comparison to a suicide bomber ? """" """

Where do you live , in outer space ??? Minimal my arse , I said I would not bother answering your ridiculous postings on this subject but your views are so irritating . Try telling the Americans that the 9/11 thousands that lost their lives are "minimal" Get a life stop hating the west , its the west that feeds you and all of your family.
The middle East is about to explode and you are telling me I should concern my self with the child soldiers of Africa , where did you get your common sense from , Castro in Cuba ? My posts are not anti Islam , never have been , I'm against the shit that blows him/ her self up outside a mosque killing Muslims . not as you irresponsibly say ""Americans and Traitors" What TV channels and papers do you read . Recently a piece of shit blew him self up in a fucking cemetery killing his fellow Muslims , and you have the stupidity to suggest that these barbarians are only killing Americans and traitors , and that during EOKA , had it not been the fact that Video cameras were not around ........................Your suggestions are so bloody stupid they are beyond intelligent comprehension.

[Socrates]

Miltiades I think what you get upset with out any reason CYPERZOKYLI does not hate the West she just trying to balance things in her way, there is no need to fighting for no reason.

I believe what you are over reacting because actually there is not big difference in what both of you said.

[cypezokyli]

The biggest ever danger facing the western world today is not the child soldiers of Africa , but the fanatics of Bin Ladin & co. They , it seems , are according to CYPERZOKYLI .

"""actually comparatively , the crimes done by islamist fanatics are minimal. i know that miltiades condemns those actions. but what irritates me , is that he wrote so many posts on islamist barbarians , and not a single one on child soldiers. or is it more ethical to steal a kid , give him a gun and teach it how to kill - in comparison to a suicide bomber ? """" """

Where do you live , in outer space ??? Minimal my arse , I said I would not bother answering your ridiculous postings on this subject but your views are so irritating . Try telling the Americans that the 9/11 thousands that lost their lives are "minimal" Get a life stop hating the west , its the west that feeds you and all of your family.
The middle East is about to explode and you are telling me I should concern my self with the child soldiers of Africa , where did you get your common sense from , Castro in Cuba ? My posts are not anti Islam , never have been , I'm against the shit that blows him/ her self up outside a mosque killing Muslims . not as you irresponsibly say ""Americans and Traitors" What TV channels and papers do you read . Recently a piece of shit blew him self up in a fucking cemetery killing his fellow Muslims , and you have the stupidity to suggest that these barbarians are only killing Americans and traitors , and that during EOKA , had it not been the fact that Video cameras were not around ........................Your suggestions are so bloody stupid they are beyond intelligent comprehension.

once again i ask you to READ what i write.
despite the fact that i am not a native speaker , my limited knowledge of english tells me that "minimal" and "comparatively minimal" are two different things. so in this respect socrates is right , we do have an understanding problem here.

The biggest ever danger facing the western world today is not the child soldiers of Africa , but the fanatics of Bin Ladin & co.

aha.
so our purpose here is to solve the problems of the western world. to this attitude i have to say the following.
1. Define the western world.
2. great self-interest , atomistic, indivudualistic ideology coming straight (not from the western world as i define it but) from the USA.

If I start argumenting using this kind of thinking i guess i ll drive you crazy because :
1. I as a cypriot do not give a **** about bin laden , bc he is never going to attack cyprus. the same way i dont care about child soldiers , i am wondering why i should care about bin laden. second i am currently living in germany. also here i am not afraid. so why should i care if some other people face such a problem ? i honestly dont see the reason. ofcource you can argue that germany (and cyprus) are not part of the western world - and thats why i asked you for a definition. so for me as a self-interested oriented individual , binladen isnot the biggest danger of my (western) world. people in london , NY, Rome and warsaw might feel that way , but i feel safe. why should I care ?
implicitly here the question is very clear : why do I feel safe and you in england you dont ?

2. the foreign office described a priest once ruling an island as "the castro of the medditerannean". assuming we are in a position to prove beyond any doubt , that the US overthrew makarios , then we shouldnt have a problem with that because he was a danger to the western world.... and well if someone is a danger of the western world, he has to go down. it is called western ethics!!

my goodness what kind of ideology is this

Miltiades I think what you get upset with out any reason CYPERZOKYLI does not hate the West she just trying to balance things in her way, there is no need to fighting for no reason.

ahem ****he***ahem

[Natty]

Natty
Try reading the Cyprus Conflict on the web; supposedly a balanced view of the conflict or try Small Wars and read about the two women' one English and one German in Famagusta or the old retired English couple in Kolossi. History is points of view, generally written by the Victor; unfortunately in Cyprus there were no winners and as usual it's the innocent who suffer on all sides.

Jim

PS. Wikpedia generally isn't very well balanced

Hey Jim, thanks for the advice, I've spent quite a while researching the 'Cyprus Problem', so I've read quite a few sources in books, the internet etc, but I only take into account what I feel is a balanced view. I agree that their were probably some members of EOKA (the original), who were so in favour of enosis and so for fighting the British(to a point of Nationalism) that they felt it was 'okay' to kil anyone who had a strong connection with The British, whether they be TC, GC etc, as they were also the 'enemy' so to speak. However these people were in a minority, the vast majority believed strongly that they were fighting the British and only the British, for their own self determination rights, that of enosis a completely legal self determination right, something they felt was being denied them.


I respect your view that Wikepidia does not give a balanced view, I only used it because it wrote about something which I have come across many times in my research, the view that the British, to a certain extent pitted the two communities against each other, to control the call for enosis and retain power, I found some other sources to back up this view, perhaps more reliable,

[quote]...During the years of colonial rule the Greek Cypriots agitated for freedom. The Turkish Cypriot minority was the object of continuous attempts at manipulation aimed at converting them into an instrument of colonial policy in countering the anti-colonial movement of the rest of the population of the island. The Colonial power involved Turkey in its dispute with the people of its colony: It was easier to continue ruling the colony if the dispute was not between the colonial masters and its subjects, but a more complicated one..........

The Times 20.1.78


In 1954 I felt great anxiety about Cyprus.
...
Harold Macmillan was urging us to stir up the Turks in order to neutralise the Greek agitation. I wrote a minute in opposition to this tactic. I also asked the Prime Minister's private secretary if I could see Churchill on the subject,
but he absolutely refused even to pass on the suggestion, which he clearly regarded as impertinence."
C.M. Woodhouse, "Something Ventured", 1982.


"The early stages of the Cyprus conflict, in the mid-1950's, were mainly a struggle between the Greek Cypriots and the British Colonial power, with the Turks at that time hardly interested in the island. There is strong evidence that the British Government of the day deliberately encouraged an indifferent Turkey to take more active interest, as a useful counterweight in the struggle against the Greeks.....

David Hotham, "The Turks", 1972.



"When the armed struggle started, the British had at their disposal thousands of men and could even increase their existing numbers to put down the EOKA struggle. This they did not do, but they formed instead the well known Auxiliary
Corps. The ordinary Turkish Cypriots, who did not realize where the British were leading them (since their leadership did not warn them, rather it encouraged them), hastened to reinforce this Auxiliary Corps thinking only of securing
a living. Thus, the Greek Cypriots, who thought that they were waging a holy struggle against the British, found themselves facing the Turkish Cypriots. In this way
the British started submitting to the Turkish community their plans for partition."

Ibrahim Aziz (A Turkish Cypriot journalist), "The Historical Course of the Turkish Cypriot Community", 1981

6. After a long but unsuccessful peaceful political and diplomatic effort, which included a referendum for self-determination in 1950, the Greek Cypriots took up arms in 1955 against the colonial power to attain freedom. During the anticolonial struggle, Turkey encouraged the Turkish Cypriot leaders to identify themselves with the colonial government in an effort to thwart the struggle for self-determination of the people of Cyprus. The "divide and rule" policy of the colonial government made serious incidents between the two communities inevitable.

From the official UN Human rights page on Cyprus[quote]



Sorry I know I've used some of the quotes before, I think I was trying to prove the same though.

Peace!:)

[cypezokyli]

natty, there is no doubt that the british tried to use the one community against each other.
but sonce you have made your research , would you be kind enough to tell us, if the leadership of the two communities have any responsibilities in this.

thanks

[Natty]

Hey cypezokyli, sorry I didn't quite understand what you meant, do you mean the TC and GC leadership, or the British leadership, or all three?

Sorry, brains all muddled today!

Peace!

[Jim]

Morning Natty
I agree with everything you say (that must be a first for this forum ). I do know that British governments have done alot of things in the recent and distant past that the majority of the British public disagree with and they still continue with unpopular foriegn policies no matter which party is in power. At the time of the troubles the British army was made up of conscript soldiers who had no more desire to be in Cyprus fighting Eoka than you or I would, but as usual they had to do what their political masters told them to do. I have firends and relatives who were out here in the Army during the troubles; they saw friends killed and injured but now they come here on holiday and enjoy the Cypriot hospitality. People cannot live in the past because, we would just keep fighting the same old wars over and over again.

Jim

[miltiades]

Natty the following is 100% correct and having lived through the 50s , and having paricipated in the liberatuion struggle , in a small scale , I can indeed relate.
...
Harold Macmillan was urging us to stir up the Turks in order to neutralise the Greek agitation. I wrote a minute in opposition to this tactic. I also asked the Prime Minister's private secretary if I could see Churchill on the subject,
but he absolutely refused even to pass on the suggestion, which he clearly regarded as impertinence."
C.M. Woodhouse, "Something Ventured", 1982.


"The early stages of the Cyprus conflict, in the mid-1950's, were mainly a struggle between the Greek Cypriots and the British Colonial power, with the Turks at that time hardly interested in the island. There is strong evidence that the British Government of the day deliberately encouraged an indifferent Turkey to take more active interest, as a useful counterweight in the struggle against the Greeks.....

David Hotham, "The Turks", 1972. ""

Can I also add that during the second WW , Cyprus joined the struggle against the Nazis and 30 thousand Cypriots , including President Clerides joined the British Army, The British throughout the war never seized making promises to the Cypriots that their dream of Enosis would fulfilled. A Cypriot delegation came to London in December of 1946 in order to demand that promises made during the War would be fulfilled. The answer was NEVER , CYPRUS IS BRITISH AND BRITISH WILL REMAIN .
On January 15th 1950 in a referendum organised by the Church 95.7" of G/Cs voted for Enosis ,
the then British Administrator Sir Andrew Wright on February 22nd told the G/Cs to stuff their referendum and that the matter was permanently closed. We know of now reaction by the T/Cs.