Cyprus-Forum.com

[theresa]

So, it seems that the Israelies are "out of control" Now more and more world leaders are calling for a ceasefire, completely ignored by Israel!! And the united nations have been targeted one again. The Israelies want a 20 MILE zone in Lebanon - can I suggest that the buffer zone is on Israeli soil? Move Israel back 20 miles - now THATS a good idea!!
Tess

[Kikapu]

My question was who is doing the killing now , not how many were killed by Sadam and his henchmen pre -2003 .

Miltiades,

Is it really that important who is doing the killings. The fact of the matter is, when you create a political instability, the results are, as we see them today. There were no plans made by the invading forces for the aftermath. One more of their ill preparedness to overthrow Saddam. "We just go and kick his ass" was the mentality. We sure did that, but from the begining, most sane people knew, this was not going to be a happy ending. Perhaps this illustrates, why I refer to Bush, the dummy. So, are we really safer today than before 2003 ?? The best thing the invading forces can do right now to win in Iraq is, ironicly, would be to put Saddam back in power.!!

[miltiades]

Kikapu , the Americans underestimated the viciousness of these people and how much they love death. the fact that life to them is of no importance has not one iota of sanctity. They value death and cant wait to enter a better world. Now please don't tell me that they don't , don't tell me that when a young man straps explosives to his body and enters a market full of his own people and blows him self up is doing so for the benefit of his nation.
I agree that these people can only be ruled by a vicious and sadistic ruler such as Sadam was.
The Americans have brought elections to Iraq , an Iraqi government has been elected , the majority of Iraqis voted, why are these savages carrying on killing 100 or so people a day ? Why ??

[cypezokyli]

when you stop viewing the world from a strict western perspective perhaps you will understand.
not everybody thinks like us. what is the sentence "we gave them democracy what more do they want ?" suppose to mean ? did you ask them if they wanted that ? did they invide you ?

as kikapu said, it doesnt take a nuclear scientist to know that when a system is destabilised , then you have war. if (you or) bush only read a basic book (assuming he can read -lol )about democratization he should have known that. when the french overthrew their king the first thing they did , was to chop peoples heads of. and not only that , it was a spectacle that families and children were visiting to enjoy , and they were asking for more... or do you think that todays western world started in a different way ? and thats the story, in most of todays democracies.

the bush goverment acted with extreme stupidity, it was unprepared, and showed that they have absolutely no clue about history or politics. even "the economist" who supported the invasion , admitted more than once, that it is hard to think how someone could carry such an operation worse than they did.
inability stupidity and arrogance are together a very dangerous combination.

[miltiades]

You do amaze me CYpezokyli , you exonerate constantly the events taking place in Iraq , the killings in markets , shrines , buses , cemeteries committed by people that you adoration is hard to conceal. The French revolution was in the 18th century , this is the 21st .You omitted to use another absurd analogy that of the Romans throwing men to lions.
In the 21 st century the indiscriminate and premeditated "suicide murder " is committed by primitive savages , not by patriots fighting their cause. It is these people who are not giving peace a chance in Iraq , not the Americans.

[Landis]

Europeans and Americans do not dispute that there are many different perspectives. We get to choose how and when we wish. People in Islamic countries do not get a choice. Their entire lives revolve around their faith. There is nothing wrong with choosing to engulf oneself in faith if that is one chooses to do. The key word--chooses. There is no choice under these regimes that expouse that their faith is the only faith and infidels should and will die. Those who believe they are duty bound by God to kill are led to that mindset by these regimes. Lebanon is the example by which the west would like the rest of the region to follow. However, the fact is that the Lebanese government could do very little about Hezbollah camping out in the country since Iran is the group's powerful backer. The west is not intent on seeing Muslims dead. Remember that the US went in to protect Muslims in Bosnia from ethnic cleansing. Greece still has not forgotten or forgiven them for it.

There is no arguing that there is political instability in Iraq but the fighting an killing was there before the Americans went in but now there is less killing because Saddam is not around to do most it. The killing is happening on a civil level between sects.

cypezokyli, to answer your question--it is estimated by the EU that deaths under Saddam's 15 year presidency to be 750,000 to 1 million. Approximately 137 to 183 per day.

[cypezokyli]

would you be kind enough to share your sources landis ?
bc sth like that i ve never heard before!!

thanks

[miltiades]

You heard of the 8 year war with Iran ?

[Kikapu]

killing was there before the Americans went in but now there is less killing because Saddam is not around to do most it.

cypezokyli, to answer your question--it is estimated by the EU that deaths under Saddam's 15 year presidency to be 750,000 to 1 million. Approximately 137 to 183 per day.

Landis,

Saddam was a bastard, no arguments, but guess what, he was our (USA's) bastard. Most of Saddams killing of his people were results of USA looking the other way. All the shameful accusation of Saddam's gassing the Kurds, were given to him by US. Saddam was our boy as long as he was engaged in a war with Iran for 8 years that killed around 1 million in total from both sides, and we gave him all the weapons for that war. Iran became our enemy, because they deposed the Shah, and took American hostage in '79.

So couple of years after the Iran war, Saddam began to fall out of favour with US, and was given the green light to invade Kuwait. All the grand standing by George Bush ( the daddy ) in 1990 was nothing more than a shameful spectacles of Americas hypocrisy, by going to war against Iraq, because we sent Saddam to Kuwait. So more Iraqis were killed in that event. Then the US gave the Shites the green light to rise against Saddam at the end of the Gulf war, before backing out, so Saddam had a field day my killing thousands of them. Then came the sanctions against Iraq, which killed approx. 500,000 children through malnutrition. Then came the war in 2003 through lies, and thousands more died during the war and since. So there is Iraqis blood on Americas hands directly and indirectly going back to 1979, because Saddam was our boy to commit those crimes while the US stood by with the green light.

[cypezokyli]

You heard of the 8 year war with Iran ?

precisely .

i knew that the iran war was included in there , and that is why the argument is rediculous.