Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

I hope you all have plenty of roast chickens to eat,Viewpoint.

I wouldn't want to read of anyone starving in the TRNC.
But you might want to enlighten me on something.I also read that the RoC offered to jointly operate the Famagusta port with the TCs for the exchange of Varosia.And this would lead to direct trade for the TRNC plus that 250 Million Euros from the EU.And Talat refused!!!
Imagine how much infrastructure you could built for that money,and the advantages of direct trade,not to mention the benefits of GC and TC cooperation.Can you please explain for me why on earth would Talat not accept such a deal?It is beyond my comprehension.

[Viewpoint]

I hope you all have plenty of roast chickens to eat,Viewpoint.

I wouldn't want to read of anyone starving in the TRNC.
But you might want to enlighten me on something.I also read that the RoC offered to jointly operate the Famagusta port with the TCs for the exchange of Varosia.And this would lead to direct trade for the TRNC plus that 250 Million Euros from the EU.And Talat refused!!!
Imagine how much infrastructure you could built for that money,and the advantages of direct trade,not to mention the benefits of GC and TC cooperation.Can you please explain for me why on earth would Talat not accept such a deal?It is beyond my comprehension.

Birkibrisli firstly lets take the 259euro, its a joke, is this amount all we are worth for saying yes, its an insult to TCs, Turkey supports us with more than double this amount every year. This amount would have been paid out over a number of years so thats gives you a perspective of the size and capabilities of such an amount. The administration of these funds demanded by GCs would also have to go through the south which in itself not acceptable. We do not recognize the leadership in the south as representing us and therefore we feel they would not have our best interests at heart.
The fact of opening famagusta port (for Maras/Varosha) which is already open and fuctioning as we speak, (if this is what you are referring to as direct trade?) I am all for sharing this port and all other ports all over the island or do you think that whats in the north should be shared and whats in the south should be GCs?
The reasoning behind Talats decision imo was that he was prepared to make this exchange on the basis that our airports and all other isolations issues related to direct trade were removed at the same time and not piece meal which would weaken our negotiating position, I feel he is more a comprehensive solution man rather than piece by piece.
I have to imho and have stated before in my ideas for a solution that Maras/Varosha should be used as a test case to see if GCs and TCs can work together and rebuild this most beautiful area of Cyprus. this would allow us the opportunity to create a very positive atmosphere between our communities but after the bridge fiasco I do not hold out much hope and have to admit that Talat might have been right.

[Eric dayi]

I hope you all have plenty of roast chickens to eat,Viewpoint.

I wouldn't want to read of anyone starving in the TRNC.
But you might want to enlighten me on something.I also read that the RoC offered to jointly operate the Famagusta port with the TCs for the exchange of Varosia.And this would lead to direct trade for the TRNC plus that 250 Million Euros from the EU.And Talat refused!!!
Imagine how much infrastructure you could built for that money,and the advantages of direct trade,not to mention the benefits of GC and TC cooperation.Can you please explain for me why on earth would Talat not accept such a deal?It is beyond my comprehension.

No Birkibrisli, the GC's wanted both Varosha and to share the running of the Famagusta port jointly in exchange for only the 259mil and the question of direct trade to be discussed at a "later date". What Talat tried to do was to combine the whole lot together so that everyone gets what they want (to start with) but the GC's refused and demanded the two should be seperated. That's why the talks ended up in a dead-end.

[zan]

I hope you all have plenty of roast chickens to eat,Viewpoint.

I wouldn't want to read of anyone starving in the TRNC.
But you might want to enlighten me on something.I also read that the RoC offered to jointly operate the Famagusta port with the TCs for the exchange of Varosia.And this would lead to direct trade for the TRNC plus that 250 Million Euros from the EU.And Talat refused!!!
Imagine how much infrastructure you could built for that money,and the advantages of direct trade,not to mention the benefits of GC and TC cooperation.Can you please explain for me why on earth would Talat not accept such a deal?It is beyond my comprehension.

Who do you think is going to issue the required certificates in order to have these direct trades, you guessed it, the RoC. It’s better if you look at the whole deal and see the traps. Direct trade does not really mean direct trade with TRNC certificates that would be too easy!! Now do you see why Talat said NO????

[Alikospah]

Well, in this instance I live on land that was Sioux hunting grounds. I am part Sioux. The other part is Swiss and immigrated to America in 1632 AD, settled the land, developed it, built the infrastructure we now have, voted for our rights and paid and do pay taxes.
I don't need to make any excuses. I belong here.
Ask the Sioux if they want to go back to pre-"Whiteman"? Living in dirt, sickness, starving and dying young. I think they will all agree, things are too good now to go back.

[BirKibrisli]

Viewpoint/Zan/Eric Dayi,
Thank you all for responding.But if nobody ever gives an inch from their principles how are we going to solve this mess?You guys seem to think that 259million Euros are peanuts.TRNC must be swimming in money!
Even here in australia nobody would turn up their noses at that sum.

I know it is not all about money,but wouldn't it be such a great start towards a solution if Marash/Varosia was given back(it is just decaying away as it is) and real cooperation starts government to government.
RoC is the internationally recognised entity in Cyprus and it is only natural they issue the certificates.Who are we trying to fool? Only Turkey recognises the TRNC.Only TRNC and Turkey do not recognise the RoC.
The RoC will never recognise the TRNC,not in a million years.So why are we trying to rub their nose in it?We are only shooting ourselves in the foot,if you ask me.And prolonging the suffering of the refugees,the families of the missing persons(on both sides,before eric puts the boot in!)
and the overall uncertainty of everyone's future in and out of Cyprus.

[BirKibrisli]

Well, in this instance I live on land that was Sioux hunting grounds. I am part Sioux. The other part is Swiss and immigrated to America in 1632 AD, settled the land, developed it, built the infrastructure we now have, voted for our rights and paid and do pay taxes.
I don't need to make any excuses. I belong here.
Ask the Sioux if they want to go back to pre-"Whiteman"? Living in dirt, sickness, starving and dying young. I think they will all agree, things are too good now to go back.

That is your interpretation,Aliko.
They probably thought they were free,down to earth,free of western diseases like VDs and cholera,typhoid,measels etc,and in spiritual union with their land and with nature...

How did a person who is half Sioux and half Swiss find his/her way to this forum on Cyprus???I am only curious,btw,you are most welcome.I believe that, as in nature, diversity is very healthy.

[Eric dayi]

Viewpoint/Zan/Eric Dayi,
Thank you all for responding.But if nobody ever gives an inch from their principles how are we going to solve this mess?You guys seem to think that 259million Euros are peanuts.TRNC must be swimming in money!
Even here in australia nobody would turn up their noses at that sum.

I know it is not all about money,but wouldn't it be such a great start towards a solution if Marash/Varosia was given back(it is just decaying away as it is) and real cooperation starts government to government.
RoC is the internationally recognised entity in Cyprus and it is only natural they issue the certificates.Who are we trying to fool? Only Turkey recognises the TRNC.Only TRNC and Turkey do not recognise the RoC.
The RoC will never recognise the TRNC,not in a million years.So why are we trying to rub their nose in it?We are only shooting ourselves in the foot,if you ask me.And prolonging the suffering of the refugees,the families of the missing persons(on both sides,before eric puts the boot in!)
and the overall uncertainty of everyone's future in and out of Cyprus.

You still don't get the point do you Birkibrisli? If the GC's want something they have to give something. They cannot demand two and give onlt one in exchance, it just doesn't work that way. But the problme is that as usual you only see things one sided and only blame the TC's, in fact you even got the deal wrong in that you said "RoC offered to jointly operate the Famagusta port with the TCs for the exchange of Varosia.And this would lead to direct trade for the TRNC plus that 250 Million Euros from the EU.And Talat refused!!!"

You got the whole thing mixed up because you are upset with everything the TC's do or don't for that matter. Your thoughts and ideas are exactly the same as the GC's, you never see things through the eyes of the TC's. It is clear, as far as you are concerned that the TC's are always wrong and can't do anything right. It is people like you that make people like me more determent to want partitioning because I realise it is people like you who would give everything away without demanding anything in return.

Am I being too harsh on you? Not any more than you are being harsh with me and those TC's who see things different than you do.

BTW, Greece and the so-called "RoC" don't recognise Macedonia but does that matter to the most of the world? They have recognised the country as the "Republic of Macedonia" and should it happen (and it will) that the TRNC is recognised by those who count for something in the world, who cares about the so-called "RoC" and Greece not recognising the TRNC. You will not find one Turk who will shed a single drop of tear about something so trivial.


I'm off for a few days, catch you when I return.

[BirKibrisli]

Eric dayi:

You got the whole thing mixed up because you are upset with everything the TC's do or don't for that matter. Your thoughts and ideas are exactly the same as the GC's, you never see things through the eyes of the TC's. It is clear, as far as you are concerned that the TC's are always wrong and can't do anything right. It is people like you that make people like me more determent to want partitioning because I realise it is people like you who would give everything away without demanding anything in return.

Am I being too harsh on you? Not any more than you are being harsh with me and those TC's who see things different than you

Yes,I think you are being too harsh,Eric.
Thoughts and ideas do not have a nationality.I always try to see the big picture (that's not to say i always succeed) and decide objectively.I am a trained mediator and conflict resolution expert.And believe me,you don't resolve any conflict by seeing only one side of the story.The most important thing in conflict resolution is to acknowledge the feelings of both sides,to let people know you empathise with them.You don't resolve conflicts by dredging up the past and blaming everything on one side.You do that if you want to maintain the conflict.The second most important thing in conflict resolution is to getting people to see the absurdity of their entrenched positions.You just cannot have peace if people refuse to leave their trenches,Eric.At best you have stalemate,as we have in cyprus now,with the possiblity of renewed hostilities at the first opportunity.
This is not what I want for my country,for my community(the Cypriotturks),and for my compatriots,the Cypriotgreeks.
And you are not right to think i want to give everything away without demanding anything.It goes without saying that whatever i give away,i want the other side to match it.If I downplay my turkishness to put my Cypriot identity upfront, because I believe that is the best thing for Cyprus,I expect the same thing from the Cypriotgreeks.It goes without saying,that is why i don't waste time saying it.

[zan]

So where is the Turkish Cypriot side in your argument Bir? We give them a port to work from which gives them a backdoor to trading with Turkish ports. By allowing them to issue certificates which means we recognise them. We pay them taxes on the exports. Everything has got a stamp on it from the RoC and no one knows it was produced by TCs. All this will give them greater clout in the courts to crucify us. Why did Talat say no again? I have already said I am not gay and this would be the mother of all shaftings. Time please gentlemen!!!!!!!