Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Of course its wrong Bir.But the question is what can one do? There are obviously many speculative buyers out there who are willing to take a risk.This is what the ROC present government fails to see or pretends not to see. Only a speedy solution to the Cyprus problem will put an end to this.Otherwise in 20 years G/C refugees will have nothing to return to.I am sorry to have to admit this but this is the reality of the case.

What is your point Alexios? Please explain here!
Are you excusing what is happening with people’s properties, just because the two sides cannot agree on the political level of the solution? A speedy solution will put a end to all these???? C'mon, are you saying a speedy solution like the Annan plan will put an end to all these or will just right off peoples property rights once and for good and essentially legalise what we now call and fight as illegal, namely the stealing of our properties? I just can’ believe how some people have such screwed up ideas sometimes. Do you have a clue of what you are saying or what????

[Kifeas]

Just imagine what would happen after a solution in a secure invironment...Even if the settlers return they would be brought back in to work..unless in the north developers would prefer Sri Lankans also..)))

[Alexios]

Of course its wrong Bir.But the question is what can one do? There are obviously many speculative buyers out there who are willing to take a risk.This is what the ROC present government fails to see or pretends not to see. Only a speedy solution to the Cyprus problem will put an end to this.Otherwise in 20 years G/C refugees will have nothing to return to.I am sorry to have to admit this but this is the reality of the case.

What is your point Alexios? Please explain here!
Are you excusing what is happening with people’s properties, just because the two sides cannot agree on the political level of the solution? A speedy solution will put a end to all these???? C'mon, are you saying a speedy solution like the Annan plan will put an end to all these or will just right off peoples property rights once and for good and essentially legalise what we now call and fight as illegal, namely the stealing of our properties? I just can’ believe how some people have such screwed up ideas sometimes. Do you have a clue of what you are saying or what????

I am simply saying that without a solution soon, G/c will have nothing to return to. By that i mean a solution acceptable to both sides.Its strange how the word speedy is taken as anathema.I dont care if its called annan plan or something else.Please dont jump to conclusions...

[cypezokyli]

the AP would have legalised all the harm done up to now. thats wrong.
the next plan would most probably legalise, in addition all the harm done between AP5 and AP137.
AP has shwon that the UN is in a position to legalise sth illegal , for practical purposes. whether we like it or not, they can do it.
thats why the "legalities" have their limits. one can call it unfair, wrong or sad , it doesnt really matter.

do you really believe that there is ever going to be a solution which will explicitly say : bring everything that was build down?

[BirKibrisli]

Viewpoint's right, Birkibrisli. Yes, as in all capitalist society's 80% of the wealth is held by 20% of the people but that doesn't mean that a lot of that money doesn't trickle down - it does! Take a look around the north and see the new roads, pavements, cars, shops, restaurants, hotels etc - there is money in the economy - and it is coming from the evil, baby-eating foreigners.

Maybe I'm wrong (and you can shoot me down if I am) but it seems that yours and many others' real problem is envy.

I've lost count of the number of lefty hippies who sell out their principles if they can a piece of the capitalist pie for themselves.

There is money in the economy,all right,Mackie.
But it is money earned by illegal or immoral ways.From real estate deals,from gambling,from prostitution,from money laundering,from drugs...And where is this money going? Not building roads as you say(otherwise there wouldn't be so many traffic accidents in such a small population).Not to find a solution to the Dikmen garbage burning problem.
Not to improve hospitals or healthcare.Not to solve the electricy and water shortages.It is going into a few hundred people's pockets largely,and the trickle effect is not worth talking about.

If it will sooth your guilty conscience to think that other people might jump to making money by illegal and immoral ways if they had a chance,then go ahead and believe that I and others are motivated by envy.But remember that you cannot escape international law forever,sooner or later the chickens will come home to roost.
And judging by Talat's panic and haste in changing the Real Estate/Property Law to get Turkey off the hook in Europe,it will be sooner rather than later.

[Kifeas]

the AP would have legalised all the harm done up to now. thats wrong.
the next plan would most probably legalise, in addition all the harm done between AP5 and AP137.
AP has shwon that the UN is in a position to legalise sth illegal , for practical purposes. whether we like it or not, they can do it.
thats why the "legalities" have their limits. one can call it unfair, wrong or sad , it doesnt really matter.

do you really believe that there is ever going to be a solution which will explicitly say : bring everything that was build down?

You are talking rubbish!!! Sorry! I have nothing else to say!

[cypezokyli]

thanks again kifeas

but the questions remain :

why did they did that in the first plan ?

what will prevent them to do it again in the next plan ?

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint's right, Birkibrisli. Yes, as in all capitalist society's 80% of the wealth is held by 20% of the people but that doesn't mean that a lot of that money doesn't trickle down - it does! Take a look around the north and see the new roads, pavements, cars, shops, restaurants, hotels etc - there is money in the economy - and it is coming from the evil, baby-eating foreigners.

Maybe I'm wrong (and you can shoot me down if I am) but it seems that yours and many others' real problem is envy.

I've lost count of the number of lefty hippies who sell out their principles if they can a piece of the capitalist pie for themselves.

There is money in the economy,all right,Mackie.
But it is money earned by illegal or immoral ways.From real estate deals,from gambling,from prostitution,from money laundering,from drugs...And where is this money going? Not building roads as you say(otherwise there wouldn't be so many traffic accidents in such a small population).Not to find a solution to the Dikmen garbage burning problem.
Not to improve hospitals or healthcare.Not to solve the electricy and water shortages.It is going into a few hundred people's pockets largely,and the trickle effect is not worth talking about.

If it will sooth your guilty conscience to think that other people might jump to making money by illegal and immoral ways if they had a chance,then go ahead and believe that I and others are motivated by envy.But remember that you cannot escape international law forever,sooner or later the chickens will come home to roost.
And judging by Talat's panic and haste in changing the Real Estate/Property Law to get Turkey off the hook in Europe,it will be sooner rather than later.

Birkibrisli time to come back down to earth and not believe everything you read. How long as it been since you visited the TRNC? Do you not see how TCs are living we have 120.000 cars in the north thats 1 for every 2 people, we educate our children privately, we take 2/3 holidays a year and we enjoy the luxuries that our neighbours enjoy and this is all done under isolation. I think your view that all is corrupt is the north is exaggerated although we do have elements of what you say just like any other country we still enjoy a good standard of life. The current government is at least trying to address and resolve internal issues like infrastructure but his takes time a lot of funding. Things are changing and things will get better for the North, if the GCs believe in what they pay lip service to then its high time they return to negotiations instead of playing to the home stand and leading their people down a road of no return.
As long as there is no comprehensive solution your chickens will be plucked and put in the oven for a deliscious roast dinner for all to eat.

[Kifeas]

thanks again kifeas

but the questions remain :

why did they did that in the first plan ?

what will prevent them to do it again in the next plan ?

They did that Cypezokyli, just to in order to pay lib service to Turkey's interests, hoping that we would have also accepted it. They were dumb wrong about it and we did the right thing for not accepting the legitimisation of the illegalities and the fait accompli of an act of aggression. It would have been an immoral act on our behalf if we have done otherwise. Martin Luther King has once said that "the only way someone can seat on your shoulder, is when you also bend your knees down." Can you imagine what a devastating world-wide precedent it would have constituted against the rights and interests of the weaker nations, if we had accepted such a way of thinking? It would have simply meant than any larger more powerful country could invade another weaker one, usurp its people's land and homes, and then seat down and wait so that the international community will one day come and legitimise its act in the form of a political solution proposal, some 30 years down the road. You should be ashamed, as a free thinking human being, to say the things you are saying sometimes!!! Some principles should not be negotiable!

[Alexios]

Of course our leaders in the south pretend all that Viewpoint described does not exist...