Cyprus-Forum.com

[macketterry]

How did the Orams' buy the land in the first place? Didn't it ever occur to them it might have once belonged to someone? This isn't the 18th century, there isn't any "free" land anymore, it all belongs to someone.
Looks to me that the Orams went there knowing the history and opportunistically bought land that they knew very likely had refugees associated with but intended to buy it out from under the rightful owners. Now they have enlisted the English prime minister's wife to aid them in this theft and injury to a war victim.
The land and property should be taken from them and they should be deported to England immediately and charges of theft leveled where it will do the most good.

What about the land that you live on in the USA, friend? Who did that used to belong to? Some poor red-Indian tribe mercilessly driven from it by greedy white settlers probably? And don't try and wriggle out of it by saying "Ah, yes but that was a long time ago" because in the end it is the same thing and you are a hypocrite.

And what's wrong with being opportunistic? Are you not opportunistic? Aren't all human beings? Imagine if someone was in bad debt and needed to sell their house immediately - would you offer them the market price or would you try and opportunistically get the best price for yourself?

These foreign buyers have not negatively affected the chance for a solution - the Cypriots did that when they rejected the UN plan in April 2004.

Now, because of their inbred, bigoted tribal politics and their third world political leaders they are about to come up against the real world and be forced to wake up and negotiate.

[Kifeas]

How did the Orams' buy the land in the first place? Didn't it ever occur to them it might have once belonged to someone? This isn't the 18th century, there isn't any "free" land anymore, it all belongs to someone.
Looks to me that the Orams went there knowing the history and opportunistically bought land that they knew very likely had refugees associated with but intended to buy it out from under the rightful owners. Now they have enlisted the English prime minister's wife to aid them in this theft and injury to a war victim.
The land and property should be taken from them and they should be deported to England immediately and charges of theft leveled where it will do the most good.

What about the land that you live on in the USA, friend? Who did that used to belong to? Some poor red-Indian tribe mercilessly driven from it by greedy white settlers probably? And don't try and wriggle out of it by saying "Ah, yes but that was a long time ago" because in the end it is the same thing and you are a hypocrite.

What a pathetic argument indeed! Listen to this individual! It is okay, he claims, today on the 21st century, to grab someone else property (land, house, etc,) because this was happening in the middle ages as well!!! Unbelievable!!!!! Therefore, everything else that used to be happening in the middle ages in relation to people’s human rights, it is okay if it happens nowadays too!!!! And then, what is going to be the next thing to hear from this pathetic individual? Perhaps we will also hear this scum, suggesting to us that it is also okay to have slaves in our houses and fields, like the white Americans had in the middle ages.

And what's wrong with being opportunistic? Are you not opportunistic? Aren't all human beings? Imagine if someone was in bad debt and needed to sell their house immediately - would you offer them the market price or would you try and opportunistically get the best price for yourself?

Nothing wrong to be opportunistic, as long as you do not violate the law and do not step into other peoples property and other rights. Once this occurs, you are subject to persecution, trial and punishment. Is there anything wrong with taking such people to courts and punishing them?

These foreign buyers have not negatively affected the chance for a solution

Oh yes! They have negatively affected the chance for a solution, because there is no land left for the Kyrenians (I mean for the entire area, not just the city) to return to.

- the Cypriots did that when they rejected the UN plan in April 2004.

If we affected the chances of the solution, just because we rejected the UN plan, this is our business to look at, not yours! It doesn’t give you or anyone else the right to assume whatever it suits you in relation to our property rights in the north. Unlike the rest of the problem’s nature -which is political, the property aspect is a purely legal (individual human rights) one. No one has the right to treat it as a political issue or mix it up with the rest of the political aspects of the problem. This is what all the Human Rights protocols of the Council of Europe say!

Now, because of their inbred, bigoted tribal politics and their third world political leaders they are about to come up against the real world and be forced to wake up and negotiate.

Rubbish!! Crap! It is none of your business what kind of politicians we have! It is only our business, us who elect them to represent us! Shut up!

Note to the Administrator:
Dear administrator, it is your obligation to keep the forum clean from people who conduct propaganda and /or provoke and insult other people’s intelligence and feelings. When someone suggests that it is reasonable and logical to steal and usurp someone else’s land, and then sell it to someone else on fake pretences, just because this is what was happening in the middle ages as well, or at a time when humans were living as savages in the caves and eating raw (uncooked) meat, then I thing such conduct should not remain unnoticed and such people should be banned immediately from the forum, so that the rest of the members conduct their discussion in a civilised manner. Such people should have no place in a civilised society but only in the jungle, where the law they so much subscribe to is practiced freely, therefore they should not have a place in a forum either!

[Svetlana]

Hi Kifeas

If we banned everyone who 'insulted others' intelligence' we would lose most of our members, I suspect!

Lana

[Sotos]

If we banned everyone who 'insulted others' intelligence' we would lose most of our members, I suspect!

Yes, don't do that! I don't want to stay alone! But Kifeas is right. We are in the 21st century now. Supposedly we have progressed and now we have human rights, no slavery, respect of international law and all the other nice things.

[zan]

Kifeas

Today the forum, tomorrow the world.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas why is it that you are so abusive when someone has an opinion that differs from yours and is closer to other forum members. Its reality and its all around you, denying it doesnt change a thing. We all know that on the property issue you cannot be unbiased as you have lost land in the north worth 2 million Cyprus pounds+ but its people like you that have paid the price for the mistakes of the past.
Your abusive and degrading outbursts work against you as people do not understand what you are really trying to say, they concentrate on the belittling languge you hurl at people. You have a big hate and anger towards us and anyone who may even challenge your ideals and mindset. From reading your posts I have come to the conclusion that you have become mentally unstable after visiting or finding out that your old property in Lapta has been developed to a degree of non return. As a fellow human being I feel for you but you should really seek mental support to rid yourself of the anger and venom you harbour and exibit from time to time.

[macketterry]

Kifeas, I'm only trying to point out the realities as I see them.

The foreign buyers are not "grabbing" land. There is a fully functioning, cohesive society in the north that foreigners can see with their own eyes. They can see that the Turkish Cypriot authorities are the only authorities and will for the forseeable future be the only authorities.

Most buyers are aware of the history and they can see that after 40 years of strife and since the failed attempt at reunification there is not going to be a political settlement in the near future. In other words, they are not depriving anybody of their land because there is no chance that the old occupants are coming back in the near future.

Most buyers know that the Turkish Cypriot refugees who settled in the Kyrenia region left behind property in the south which they have signed over to the TRNC authorities. So these foreigners are not immoral monsters sticking the knife into poor Greek Cypriots. They are just normal people who think North Cyprus is a good place to live/invest.

Reading your post makes me wonder how many other Greek Cypriots hold these extreme views and why it is not possible for you to come to terms with the past and enjoy the present and build for the future.

I can't think of any other place in the EU where this kind of attitude prevails.

[Agios Amvrosios]

Hey Mac Nackery Titina is coming back.

The unscrupulous cheap bastards who purchase refugee land can only be described as
opportunistic exploiters of ethnic cleansing - when legal title to 92% of the land in the occupied north and especially Kyrenia is held by non Turkish Cypriots. If the ruthless cheap bastards were not opportunistic they would purchase the 8% of land in the north owned by Turkish Cypriots wouldn't they.

Refugee land is cursed like an ancient American Indian Burial Ground

[macketterry]

Gulp! There really is no hope with you neandarthals around is there?

Thank God real Europe is more mature otherwise we'd still be fighting the second world war.

Even the meatheads in Northern Ireland have been pacified and are now learning that dialogue and compromise is the way forward.

Why on earth politically immature Cyprus was allowed in to the EU is a recurring question for people from mature democracies.

Maybe even Turkey has a chance of getting in at this rate!

[TheCabbie]

And what's wrong with being opportunistic? Are you not opportunistic? Aren't all human beings? Imagine if someone was in bad debt and needed to sell their house immediately - would you offer them the market price or would you try and opportunistically get the best price for yourself?

These foreign buyers have not negatively affected the chance for a solution - the Cypriots did that when they rejected the UN plan in April 2004.

Now, because of their inbred, bigoted tribal politics and their third world political leaders they are about to come up against the real world and be forced to wake up and negotiate.

By making these comments you're being either disingenuous, very naive, stupid or you think everybody else is stupid to the point of being arrogant yourself.

Presumably anybody with enough brain cells to sign their name would make some checks before buying property in a foreign country, they'd get their solicitors to make a LOT of checks even in their native countries, would it take a very high level of intelligence to check with the British Foreign Office (or that of whatever country you're from).

30 seconds on the internet could get you to the British High Commision in Nicosia's web site, where you'd find the following:

Property issues are closely linked to the political situation. There are a number of potential practical, financial and legal implications, particularly for those considering buying property in the north - these relate to the non-recognition of the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", the possibility of a future political settlement in Cyprus, and claims to ownership from people displaced in 1974. There is also a risk that purchasers would face legal proceedings in the courts of the Republic of Cyprus, as well as attempts to enforce judgments from the courts of the Republic of Cyprus elsewhere in the EU, including the UK. Separately, the administration in the north imposes specific rules for foreigners purchasing property in the north including the requirement to obtain consent to transfer of property, and you should ensure you are fully aware of these.

And lets face it, we all know there's no such thing as a free lunch...

My opinion is that the expats in the North have had a cheap time, over the past 30 years they've lived the champagne life style for beer money, now it's payback time they're screaming their titties off trying to justify themselves, sorry but the world is changing...Shit Happens, live with it.

Having said that, any foreigner who's bought a place in the North since the "border" opened.. is an Arsehole of the highest order