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New Negotiation Process

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby sadik » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:44 am

Piratis wrote:Sadik, I am afraid that the majority of TCs are aligned with Turkey when it comes to the Cyprus problem. It appears that the partition dream is well inside the heads of most Turkish Cypriots and they value this dream higher than legality, higher than respect toward Greek Cypriots, and higher even that their own interests which would have been in a united democratic Cyprus part of EU without racist or other discriminations.

For most TCs "unity" actually means a form of loose association (like Annan plan) that would allow them to end the isolation, become EU members and get richer. I hope they will realize that such kind of "unity" does not exist and in the end they will have to choose between a true unity or to remain under an illegal Turkish puppet state.


The fact that we accepted the Annan Plan does not mean that it's the only plan that we'll ever accept. In my opinion, the TCs will accept a solution based on a bizonal, bicommunal federation that will also be acceptable to the GCs. Currently, when I look at what's on the table, i.e. a BBF, it looks acceptable to the TCs. However, without specifics, we cannot say for sure what will be accepted, because most people have their own scale to measure what they see positive and what they see negative about the specifics. In the end they will accept a plan not based on it's perfection, but it's overall quality, after all things are considered.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:53 am

Viewpoint wrote:True unity GC style or UN style? There are many shades Piratis you just havent discovered them.


True unity as it exists in other countries. And no, I am not refering to countries were the unity does not exist anymore or it is about to end (e.g. Serbia Montenegro). I am talking about unity with example democratic countries which this unity has lasted for many many years without problems. And there are many such countries.

We will not accept a kind of "unity" that will last for 5 years (e.g. What they had in Serbia Montenegro)
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:56 am

Sadik, BBF is a vague term.

Do TCs accept that they are part (18%) of the one Cypriot people? Do they accept that the whole Cyprus belongs equally to all Cypriots? Do they accept that a true unification can not be the one that violates the human rights of other Cypriots? These are the important questions.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:49 pm

Piratis wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:True unity GC style or UN style? There are many shades Piratis you just havent discovered them.


True unity as it exists in other countries. And no, I am not refering to countries were the unity does not exist anymore or it is about to end (e.g. Serbia Montenegro). I am talking about unity with example democratic countries which this unity has lasted for many many years without problems. And there are many such countries.

We will not accept a kind of "unity" that will last for 5 years (e.g. What they had in Serbia Montenegro)


But these other options exist which are also democracies and respect human rights dont close your eyes, that is what I have been trying to get accross to you for 2 days now. There is not just one type of solution or balance that will give both communities human rights and democracy, there are different shades. The Serbia Montenegro soluiton is a recent example of 2 peoples making the decision to split as they see their future as being seperate. You cannot force a marriage, both individuals have to want to form a partnership otherwise it will breakdown sooner or later. The fact that we are similar people does not automatically mean we can live together we both have to feel we can trust each other to build any kind of future together. Your and other GC attitudes do not instill this belief in any TCs, you just want it your way or the highway, well dont be suprised if we chose the highway every time.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:58 pm

Piratis wrote:Sadik, BBF is a vague term.

Do TCs accept that they are part (18%) of the one Cypriot people? Do they accept that the whole Cyprus belongs equally to all Cypriots? Do they accept that a true unification can not be the one that violates the human rights of other Cypriots? These are the important questions.


Been there done it, didnt work. Time to find something that does.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:33 pm

But these other options exist which are also democracies and respect human rights


Sure they exist. Serbia Montenegro existed, and now we have Serbia alone and Montenegro alone. No problem.

Can you understand the difference between that, and the case of Cyprus were you ethnically cleansed the majority of the population from an area and now you call that area yours???

Monenegrians own montenegro. They can make federation with Serbia, they can be independent, they can join the EU alone etc. It is their own country.

Such country as the "TC country" does not exist. You do now own a separate area that you can do whatever you feel like with it. You are the 18% minority in the whole Cyprus, like Bulgarian Turks, Russians in Latvia (30%), Blacks in USA etc.
So do not compare yourselves with communities than own specific part of land and can do what they want with it! The ethnic cleansing you performed against us was illegal and will never be legalized. Get it?
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:34 pm

Been there done it, didnt work. Time to find something that does.


Illegality is not an option for most. Apparently for you it is. I am actually not surprised.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:55 pm

Piratis wrote:
But these other options exist which are also democracies and respect human rights


Sure they exist. Serbia Montenegro existed, and now we have Serbia alone and Montenegro alone. No problem.

Can you understand the difference between that, and the case of Cyprus were you ethnically cleansed the majority of the population from an area and now you call that area yours???

Monenegrians own montenegro. They can make federation with Serbia, they can be independent, they can join the EU alone etc. It is their own country.

Such country as the "TC country" does not exist. You do now own a separate area that you can do whatever you feel like with it. You are the 18% minority in the whole Cyprus, like Bulgarian Turks, Russians in Latvia (30%), Blacks in USA etc.
So do not compare yourselves with communities than own specific part of land and can do what they want with it! The ethnic cleansing you performed against us was illegal and will never be legalized. Get it?


Its getting more and more obvious that permenant partition is the only solution with you Piratis.

GC refugees will be allowed to return and those that prefer not to will recieve compensation. We will reduce land distribution to a % that will include the return of GCs and allow us to function as a seperate state.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:59 pm

Piratis wrote:
Been there done it, didnt work. Time to find something that does.


Illegality is not an option for most. Apparently for you it is. I am actually not surprised.


Until we agree a solution the current situation will continue, ho i forgot the balance of power could also swing in your favor and you could kick us out.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:02 pm

There is no such thing as permanent partition. Partition can exist only as long as you can legally enforce it.
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