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Akritas Plan, what was it?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Socrates » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:26 am

My political choice is very clear I was going to support Greece suggestion (not to make trouble) and act against our government in any possible way even if I wanted enosis



Is about that?

Offcource I don’t mean illegal act and Kifeas if it’s that then you have a mind problem.

And when I’ve said if I wanted enosis I mean what even then I was going to be reasonable.

And I was going to support the legal Greek government of G Papandreou who was against to make trouble with the constitution.

We was speaking about the 60 issue and not the 74
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Postby Natty » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:48 am

Hey, I don't want to get involved in an argument, I accept that obvioulsy people have different, and often conflicting views on the Cyprus problem and indead the Akritas plan, and I thank those people for giving me both sides of the story, however I am still not convinced that the plan was written to genocide the TC population,

"Reason (a) has already been dealt with in the first part and, consequently, it remains only to consider the danger of inter-communal violence. Since we do not intend, without provocation, to attack or kill Turks, the possibility remains that the Turkish Cypriots, as soon as we proceed to the unilateral amendment of any article of the constitution,

will react instinctively, creating incidents and clashes or stage, under orders, killings, atrocities or bomb attacks on Turks, in order to create the impression that the Greeks have indeed attacked the Turks, in which case intervention would be justified, for their protection."

In the second paragraph I have highlighted a sentence that I think is particulary interesting, as the tactic of some TC's that was predicted would happen had indead happened before, so that they could "prove" that the Greeks hated the Turks, and vise versa....

What confuses me, is that some people feel that just before the invasion Makarios still wanted ennosis with Greece, again I don't think anyone knows really, only Makrios could tell us for sure, the think that puzzles me is the fact that at that time Greece was being run by the Military Junta (America's puppets as far as I can see, I think I can also put EOKA B in that category...) who were out to kill Makarios so they could join Cyprus with Greece, or as America wanted, achieve "Double" ennosis, half of Cyprus becoming part of Turkey and half becoming part of Greece, indeed they tried many times...My question is, why would he want to join with Greece (at that time) when he was considered their enemy? If Makarios did still want to achieve Ennosis in the future with Greece, i'm guessing when/if a democratic goverment was installed, then I don't think he wanted, or indeed any GC wanted to do this to be able to specifically "Genocide" the Turkish Cypriots....As far as they were concerned, Cyprus would become part of Greece and THe Turkish Cypriots would become part of the ethnic Turkish Minority of Greece, and they would be protected and given minority rights, just like in any other country of the world...Obviously the TC's did not want that, and I can understand why, they wanted more than Minority rights, which is something we as Greek Cypriots must respect...I think Genocide is a very strong word, and I really don't think that you can apply that word to the Cyprus problem...Rwanda, yes, Cyprus, No.

Peace!:)
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Postby Bananiot » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:45 am

There are historical reasons behind many of the actions taken and history is still with us and taunts us daily. For example, in 1915 Crete united with Greecre (enosis) and at the time there were 80 000 Cretan Turks who were very proud people indeed. After enosis, not a single Turkish Cretan soul remained in Crete! Now, if you were a Turkish Cypriot, would you view enosis with Greece very lightly? Natty, if you can read Greek you will find "Athooi kai ftaixtes" of Maro Douka (a Cretan) very interesting.

Kifeas remembered Efialtes in Thermopylae (sic) who supposedly led the Persian army behind the Greek lines. He was a traitor and it is very convenient to have a traitor who would shoulder the blame for every failure. There was no Efialtes (literally means nightmare) and the worse of our nightmares is the constant looking for traitors (efialtes) to blame them for all our shortcomings.

Go on Kifeas, report me to the administrator. I have just called you an ignorent liar, albeit in ... different words.

What a cry baby!
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Postby Kikapu » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:13 am

Kifeas,
Just because the Akritas plan did not spell out every detail as to what was the "plan" for the Turkish Cypriots, you must know in your heart, that there were no positives for the TC's. The "plan" had it's purpose which was to be carried out step by step as not to create a major chances over night, and with each step forward, would have meant one step closer for the TC's final outcome, whether it meant to be killed or leave the island. I'm sure, TC's leaving the island would have been preferred by the "plan", as not to create huge backlash form abroad.

I like to know from you, since you and Piratis and others do not buy into the "plan", how do you explain the events of 1963-1974. The "plan" had to have ignited the "fire" I talked about earlier, which you seem to have dismissed it, by blaming other doing it. You, Piratis and me see George bush as untrusworthy, where's Miltiades and few others see him very trustworthy. Of all the lies Bush talked about regarding Iraq, half the country still support him, so is it possible, you just do not want to accept that Makarios or PappaD and others could have had any such "plan" against the TC's, because you yourself could not imagine doing it, to your fellow country men.

There was another plan that was written back in June 3rd, 1997, by NeoCons of the USA, regarding Iraq and the Middle East that no one knew about until recently, that was written by major players in Bushes administration, including, Cheyney, Rumsfield, Wolfowittz, Jeb Bush, Dan Quayle and many others. So the Iraq invasion was decided back in 1997 and not as Miltiades likes to believe after 911. That was just the spring board for the attack. The plan is called "PNAC", "Project for the New American Century". If you google it, you will have a great deal to know what the plan was all about. You can also www.newamericancentury.org . "Plan's" usually have more hidden agendas than one would like to believe.
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Postby NeverSayGoodbye » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:31 am

The same can be said about the turkish invasion as well Kikapu cant it?
That it was planned well before 1974.
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Postby Kifeas » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:44 am

Kikapu wrote:Kifeas,
Just because the Akritas plan did not spell out every detail as to what was the "plan" for the Turkish Cypriots, you must know in your heart, that there were no positives for the TC's. The "plan" had it's purpose which was to be carried out step by step as not to create a major chances over night, and with each step forward, would have meant one step closer for the TC's final outcome, whether it meant to be killed or leave the island. I'm sure, TC's leaving the island would have been preferred by the "plan", as not to create huge backlash form abroad.

I like to know from you, since you and Piratis and others do not buy into the "plan", how do you explain the events of 1963-1974. The "plan" had to have ignited the "fire" I talked about earlier, which you seem to have dismissed it, by blaming other doing it. You, Piratis and me see George bush as untrusworthy, where's Miltiades and few others see him very trustworthy. Of all the lies Bush talked about regarding Iraq, half the country still support him, so is it possible, you just do not want to accept that Makarios or PappaD and others could have had any such "plan" against the TC's, because you yourself could not imagine doing it, to your fellow country men.

There was another plan that was written back in June 3rd, 1997, by NeoCons of the USA, regarding Iraq and the Middle East that no one knew about until recently, that was written by major players in Bushes administration, including, Cheyney, Rumsfield, Wolfowittz, Jeb Bush, Dan Quayle and many others. So the Iraq invasion was decided back in 1997 and not as Miltiades likes to believe after 911. That was just the spring board for the attack. The plan is called "PNAC", "Project for the New American Century". If you google it, you will have a great deal to know what the plan was all about. You can also www.newamericancentury.org . "Plan's" usually have more hidden agendas than one would like to believe.

Kikapu, if you believe that mere speculation as to what the GC leadership’s deeper intentions may have been, is enough to allow you or anyone else to write history in a way in which a victimizing stigma will be left against the GC community for having conspired to “annihilate” the TC community, then you must know that we will never allow you or anyone else to promote such an objective. We will not allow you to do that, mainly for two reasons. The first and most important is because it is not based on any concrete evidence, but it is rather based on a whole series of assumptions and to a large extent skewed and far stretched interpretations of facts. You have the right to present, analyze and criticize any and all of the actual facts and events, but you have no right to invent, imply and impose facts and events based on perceptions and deliberate misrepresentation or deliberate and skewed misinterpretation of other facts and events. This is not how history is written!

The second reason we will not allow this to happen, is because we know for certain that the reason the above is happening is because there is an imperative need to incriminate and victimize the GC side, due to a need to legitimize and eventually also legalize (if this can be possible) the 1974 ethnic cleansing (and this is a fact) of the GCs from the north by Turkey, and the on-going occupation ever since; or to legitimize the appearance and facilitate the adoption of unacceptable “solution” proposals like the Annan plan.

The former (legitimization of the ethnic cleansing and occupation) is the aim of the Turkish propaganda since then (1974,) and the later (facilitate the adoption of solutions like the Annan plan) is the aim of GC people like Bananiot! Both aims are based on the need for the complete victimizing incrimination of the GC side for the past! Those from the Turkish side that engage themselves in this mission are called propagandizes! Those from the Greek Cypriot side are called traitors! Both of them though are also called history fabricators, because they base nearly all of their conclusions on mere speculations, assumptions and factual misrepresentations.

Now, the Akritas plan was indeed an evil plan aiming to usurp the separate, anyway excessive and certainly unfairly disproportional but nevertheless, constitutional rights of the Turkish community; primarily –if not exclusively- through the introduction and use of devious, manipulating and cunning political means and methods, for the (not the sole as such) aim of promoting enosis. It did not envision, as such, the violation of the Turkish Cypriot's individual fundamental human rights -as they are stipulated in the UN chart and the CoE human rights protocols, nor the usurping of their individualy based political rights, neither their individual and communal cultural rights, nevertheless it did not envision their annihilation and /or their forceful expulsion from Cyprus. I am saying the above not because I want to appear as an appeaser, as someone has already suggested, of the Akritas plan, but because this is the only undeniable evidence one may extract from reading it.

Now, if because there was /is a natural fear on the part of the TCs that this may have potentially or eventually turned out to have been the outcome (annihilation or expulsion,) I am ready to acknowledge and accept the existence of such a fear, but I am not ready to accept that because of the no matter how justified perception of such a danger the TCs have had, that this was also indeed the intention and /or aim of the GC leadership, or that this is what indeed and beyond doubt would have been the final result. I feel no one is allowed to make such an unsubstantiated “concrete and absolutist” allegation against the GC leadership and the GC community in general, and to propagandize such a thing certainly constitutes a deliberate unfair historical victimization and incrimination against us, something we are not ready to allow to happen.
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Postby Bananiot » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:00 am

The GC community at the time was led by butchers of the likes of Yiorkatzis and Sampson whom Makarios entrusted with paramilitary armies. These people were not mere Greek Cypriots, they were murderers and no sane Greek Cypriot is offended when these murderers are exposed, with the sad exceptions of Kifeas who is absolutely sure that his murdering friends were a God sent gift to the Turkish Cypriots, probably because they would have sent them earlier to their Creator.
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Postby Kifeas » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:17 am

Bananiot wrote:The GC community at the time was led by butchers of the likes of Yiorkatzis and Sampson whom Makarios entrusted with paramilitary armies. These people were not mere Greek Cypriots, they were murderers and no sane Greek Cypriot is offended when these murderers are exposed, with the sad exceptions of Kifeas who is absolutely sure that his murdering friends were a God sent gift to the Turkish Cypriots, probably because they would have sent them earlier to their Creator.


If you believe that by spreading ridiculous obscenities such as that I regard Yiorkatzis, Sampson an /or anyone else of their likes as my friends, and that I appear as someone that feels the need to defend them for whom and what they were (Sampson was certainly a butcher, but certainly not someone that Makarios entrusted anything,) you take revenge against me in this way for exposing your treacherous plans and aims, you are simply deluding yourself once more.
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Postby Socrates » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:31 am

Sampson was entrusted from Makarios like Yiorkatzis were all o big happy family of criminals and after they started to try to kill each other.

And by my opinion Yiorkatzis and Sampson fail to kill Makarios but The Big M eventually managed to kill Yiorkatzis and there is roomers what behind the killing of Yiorkatzis was the right testicle of Makarios PapaD who was after the big wealth of Yiorkatzis wife were eventually married with her.
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Postby Bananiot » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:44 am

No, no, no Socrates, Papadopoulos (alias Defkalion) is a holy man. He married Fotini in order to alleviate the pain after Yiokatzis's death. The fact that she was a beautiful woman and a millionnaire had nothing to do the noble act of Papadopoulos.

Take revenge against Kifeas? The man is paranoid. I have better ways to waste my time rather than ponder over a person who has demonstrated that he has no stomach for a different view of the world.
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