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Intermarriages between Turkish and Greek Cypriots

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Intermarriages between Turkish and Greek Cypriots

Postby sadik » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:04 pm

The following story is of an "intercommunal" family living in the UK.

Having seen and heard of similar cases before I wondered; are we ever going to have a time when a love affair between a GC and a TC will not end with a "logical" seperation or religious conversion or expulsion from the society.



Battling a mountain of prejudice
By Alexia Saoulli

He’s a Turkish Cypriot, she’s a Greek Cypriot: happily married but facing a daily struggle to be accepted

IBRAHIM Mehmet is a 39-year-old London cabbie.

A proud and honest man he works hard to provide a good life for his wife and three children.

He is not a tramp, a criminal, a thief, or a peasant.

He has always had money in his pocket, a good education, and never asked anyone for anything.

But despite all this, his wife’s family have never acknowledged his existence.
Why? Because he is a Turkish Cypriot and she is a Greek Cypriot.

Ibrahim and Helen met in London at his family-run Wimpy Bar in the summer of 1987 when she was just 17.

For Ibrahim, it was love at first sight.

Speaking to the Sunday Mail from their home in Surrey, he said: “She was standing at the counter talking to my mother in Greek when my mother called me over to introduce us. She said, ‘look Ibrahim, it’s someone from Cyprus’. That’s when I looked into her eyes and fell in love. I told myself ‘you’re going to be my wife’.”

But for Helen it wasn’t as simple as that. Despite Ibrahim’s advances, she barely spoke to him for the first 10 months.

“I used to go in to the restaurant for my lunch break and after some time we started talking… There was something about him,” she said.

At the time Helen was living with her maternal aunt. Her father had moved back to Cyprus following her mother’s death three years previously.

“I wasn’t allowed out back then, so we’d only meet at the restaurant and sometimes he’d offer me a lift to work. We talked and got to know each other that way,” she said.

The couple told no one about their relationship, knowing it would be frowned upon by their respective families.

“I knew everyone would think what we were doing was wrong, but in the end I followed what I thought was right,” said Helen.

Ibrahim said his mother liked Helen, but wanted him to marry someone Turkish. When she sensed something was going on between the two of them she threatened her son.

“She said: I gave you life and I can take life from you as well. I told her not to make me choose because she was going to lose. It was as simple as that.”

He added: “I think it was because her village was under constant bombardment from EOKA in the 1960s and she had had family members killed, so she had very strong feelings… She could see the problems [of a mixed marriage] that I couldn’t see or didn’t want to.”

When Helen tried to tell her aunt about the relationship, the reaction was no better.
She said: “They were trying to match-make me with someone else. I told her I wasn’t interested and that I’d met someone. When I told her he was Turkish she said not to repeat those words again. I told her twice and then knew she wasn’t going to listen.”
At the end of 1988, Ibrahim and Helen were married at a registry office and moved into a flat together. Neither one’s family members were present.

Helen took on her husband’s name.

“There was never any question about it. I didn’t want to keep my maiden name, I wanted to have my husband’s name. Why shouldn’t I?”

Working for his father became difficult for Ibrahim as they were no longer on speaking terms.

“I tried to tell my family to give her a chance and not to hate her for her nationality.”
It was only after the birth of their eldest daughter three years later that his family finally broke the ice.

“My father told my mother that ‘either we accept her or we lose our son’,” he said.
“She was a model daughter-in-law; dutiful, pleasant, respectful and polite. He treated her like a daughter and she treated him like a father.”

Once his parents accepted the marriage his two sisters and brother did too.

“His parents were lovely. His dad was like a father to me. His mum is like my mum. I have two sisters-in-law that are like sisters to me. I don’t have any problems with his family,” Helen added.

But her family did not accept the marriage. In fact, by 1990 she and her father had also stopped speaking.

It took 14 years, her father-in-law’s death and a trip to Cyprus to rekindle some semblance of a relationship with him.

“After my father-in-law died, my husband encouraged me to get in touch with my father again because he said he wouldn’t want anything to happen to him with us still not speaking,” she said.

Helen flew to Cyprus in 2004 with her three children, then aged 13, 10 and three. Ibrahim followed a few days later to surprise her, not wanting her to go through the trip and the emotional meeting with her father alone.

The family met up with Helen’s father in Ayia Napa – where he owns a nightclub – for a total of 30 minutes, Ibrahim said.

“I confronted him and said if he had a problem with me I’d respect him more if he said it to my face rather than behind my back. He said he had no problem,” he said.
Nevertheless, the family have not managed to meet up again since, although Helen now calls her father once a month.

She also keeps in contact with an aunt from her father’s side, a cousin and her two brothers, one of whom lives in England.

“I don’t see anyone from my mum’s side. I don’t know their reasons. It’s been difficult. I tell myself it’s [because of] ignorance and prejudice,” she said. “My husband’s helped me though and I try and block it out I suppose and carry on.”

Ibrahim added: “I’m happy to build a relationship with my father-in-law. My wife and my children are the most important thing in my life. My children want their grandfather to be in their life and it’s in his hands. At end of the day, they’re half Greek and if their Greek side [of the family] doesn’t want them to know anything about that side then that’s up to them and it’s their loss.”

Ibrahim said he would have converted to Christianity to give his wife a traditional Church wedding to placate her family if that was what they had wanted.

“She’s my everything,” he explained. “But there was never any reason to do it because her family have never accepted that I exist. It’s no different from when we first got together.”

But he questions if their marriage would have been as strong had Helen’s family been involved in their lives.

“Their true colours came out when she married me. She obviously did the unthinkable, committed the ultimate sin.”

Both Ibrahim and Helen know they could never move to Cyprus because of the racism across both sides of the divide.

They also refuse to send their children to Greek or Turkish schools in the UK.

“I don’t like what they teach. I don’t want my children to be taught bad things about Turkish people. Their dad’s a Turk, they’re half Turkish. It’s wrong,” Helen said.
Ibrahim feels the same way.

He said: “I don’t want anyone poisoning my children’s minds. They are half Turkish and half Greek. They know something happened in Cyprus but there are too many untruths and stories. If they want to learn [more], they can do so by themselves. We’re not going to teach our kids to hate where their mum and dad come from and their people.”

In England, the couple have a lot of Greek Cypriot friends and a few Turkish Cypriot friends. Ibrahim’s best friend is a Greek Cypriot called Michalis. They also favour Greek music over Turkish music, with Ibrahim admitting to a fondness for Keti Garbi and Natasa Theodoridou.

Ibrahim said the only difference between him and his wife was language.

“We have met people who continuously want to be political and say things like they’re going to drive all the Turks into the sea, or all they talk about is the invasion and Turkish army…

“There is one nationality and that is Cypriot. There are no Turkish Cypriots or Greek Cypriots, only Turkish-speaking Cypriots and Greek-speaking Cypriots. People that feel Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot should move to Greece or Turkey and leave us [Cypriots] alone to get on with rebuilding the trust that is non-existent at the moment…
“I won’t accept propaganda. Not even from members of my own family. I’ve had family members in Cyprus try and ask me why I married a Greek. I won’t have it. My kids have a Greek mother. It’s as simple as that. If people want to talk like that they’re not welcome in my home,” he said.

Ibrahim said he felt he and Helen had the same culture and said as a family they lived as Cypriots, eating the same foods and upholding the same values.

“We live as Cypriots and want our children to marry Cypriots,” he said.

Helen said any cultural differences had never been an issue between them as a couple and although a lot of people were unhappy about their union, it was none of their business.

She said: “I don’t regret the decision I made. I love my husband very much and I love him more every day. He’s my best friend. It really doesn’t bother me if nobody ever speaks to me. I have my husband and children and that’s what makes me happy.”

Ibrahim has no regrets either, despite feeling “aggrieved” that Helen’s family have never acknowledged him.

He said: “There are a lot of good women in this world and of all the good women I made the right choice. My wife and children are everything to me. As long as they are happy and safe that’s what’s important to me.”

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2006
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Postby miltiades » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:23 pm

""We live as Cypriots and want our children to marry Cypriots,” he said. ""

What a moving story . It makes you think that if religion was about love and compassion most of the hatred in the world would disappear , as logic takes over. Every religion describes their beliefs as the truth , and all religions are promoted by the believers as compassionate !!! My foot ! Where is the forgiveness , the compassion the kindness to your fellow human being . Some of the most ardent religious nations are committing the most heinous crimes against humanity and yet they have the audacity to masquerade as compassionate.
Back to our friends Ibrahim and Helen and their 3 childhren .You take care of your selves and your children and if relations do not accept you tell them to get lost.
Good luck and best wishes .
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Postby andri_cy » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:47 pm

Tsk I have had the same problems when I married my husband and he is american. I think that Greek Cypriots have a bit of a superiority complex sometimes. Thankfully my family came around after my daughter was born, but I know how difficult it is. You would think they just want you to be happy and it shouldnt matter who you are with. It is sad. At the end of the day though, all that matters is that the couple has each other and that they stay strong.
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Postby reportfromcyprus » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:25 pm

Real love transcends differences in culture, religion and nationality. Even if all the evidence seems to be to the contrary, what's meant to be will be, and real love stays the course no matter what.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:15 pm

Mixed marriges are not easy anyways. However I know many people that are happily married with non-Cypriots. My cousin is married with a Muslim guy with no problems.

I think the biggest problems are about the children. What language will the speak? What religion will they have? In what kind of culture and tradition will they grow up? What names will they be given?

If you are an immigrant in another country then your parents can accept that your children will probably take more from the country of your spouse since they will be born and live there. So the problem is smaller.

But when it comes to Greek and Turkish Cypriots things become harder. The solution is to keep a balance where possible and to be neutral. E.g. The children should not be given any religion, and be given names that are neither Greek or Turkish.
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Postby andri_cy » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:25 pm

Why cant the children speak both languages?
Is the name that the children are given really that important or is more important what kind of people they end up becoming?
Religion is important but not the only thing that keeps family together. The children can decide for themselves which religion represents them the best if any.
What is important is if they live in a household where both parents love and respect each other. Then they will be good people with values. Religion can be important but it is not that damn important. My husband and I came to an agreement and an understanding as far as names, religion, culture, education and a bunch of other things are concerned. I am sure that 2 people that come from the same country, have similar cultures, food, values are easier to come together. IF only the prejudice wasnt stuyck in everyone's heads.
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Postby miltiades » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:46 pm

Andry , religion is definitely NOT IMPORTANT.The Christian philosophy is admirable , but that is all it it is. A way of life a set of rules . Some time ago a question was raised on this forum " is Islam a peaceful religion " 7 voted yes 3 voted no . I did not vote , I just thought what a bloody stupid question.
Religion spreads hatred , divides people , puts the fear of God ( who doesn't exist !) in people and turns man against man , and makes man kill in the name of his perverted god,.
Today was the 1st anniversary of the London bombings when innocent people died , when the savages who call them selves religious , who apparently love death more than we love life , spread terror and destruction in London by blowing their cheap worthless lives and taking with them all those innocent people.Their motivation was their sick ideology.
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Postby Natty » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:01 am

If people follow religion the way it should be followed then the world would, or should be a peacefull place, but unfortunatley people manipulate religion to suit their needs, and fit their own ideas.....Often causing pain in the process, but You can't really say that everyone that is religious 'is bad' so to speak....You have to respect other people's beliefs...

On the intermarriage subject, I think in every culture it's a bit of a taboo to marry someone who isn't of your culture, whether your Greek, Spanish, Indian...but I think that people are becoming more open minded...I mean I know in my Familly and community they are at least...:)

Peace!! :) :)
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Postby Natty » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:02 am

Although it really is a very touching story, and I wish them every luck for the future!! ;):)
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Postby miltiades » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:19 pm

Natty wrote>
.""...You have to respect other people's beliefs... ""

Careful there Natty , there many interpretations of "faith " that are barbaric , inhumane , full of hatred and malice for those that do not share their sick and perverted ideologies.
Respect their rights to believe in whatever sick teachings they want to believe , but respect their beliefs , big big difference.
Sorry Natty.
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