Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

I for one am not going to completely supress my identity

would you be kind enough to explain the above ?

[miltiades]

Well Im a CYPRIOT , and those who are firstly Greeks Or Turks should have the decency to respect the natives of this Island , the Island of Cyprus , not Athens , not Sparta , not Ankara not Salonica but Limassol ., Paphos , Larnaca. This is something for all the Greek lovers to digest.
When we Greek Cypriots were demonstrating demanding ENOSIS with our "Motherland " way back in the 50s we made one dreadful mistake. We should have known that it should have been the bloody Greeks who should have been demonstrating in the streets of Athens demanding union with Cyprus. But they were far too busy demonstrating about Chile , Russia , Cuba, Afghanistan , Iraq and every other fucking country that they attach them selves too. They have nothing to offer us , cant you see this , they rejected us in 1923 , they abandoned us in 74 when they were so busy searching for their balls.
As for you Simon , do us a favour fly the Cyprus flag , the flag of the nation that proudly survived so much hardship and came through by standing on its own feet , not relying on second rate assistance from the perceived motherlands. Does this make me anti Greek , anti Turkish , you bet it does , because my birth country is Cyprus , the love that I have for Cyprus is without limits.
You nor I have to suppress our identity as Greek Cypriots , and neither do our compatriots the Turkish Cypriots have to .
In case you wonder why I persistently promote the Cypriot identity it is because I know in my heart that the Turkish Cypriots love this island and consider it home just as you Simon and I do, and the only common denominator available is CYPRUS .

[cypezokyli]

and almost every TC I hear does not truly want reunification anyway.

http://www.CyprusPolls.org/BuildingTrust.pdf

the above is a poll from a prominent psychlogist. a member of this forum as well. tcs reject a two-state solution

and as for the basis for a solution i refer you to what our elected leaders agreed on yesterday

Set of Principles"



1. Commitment to the unification of Cyprus based on a bi-zonal,

bi-communal federation and political equality, as set out in the

relevant Security Council resolutions.



2. Recognition of the fact that the status quo is unacceptable and

that its prolongation would have negative consequences for the

Turkish and Greek Cypriots.

[Piratis]

Thought your response would have been much better you avoid the main comment Greek Cypriot state issue and divert it to union with Greece. But thats ok, the difference is that before you wanted to turn Cyprus into Greece and anialate the TCs now you will not call Cyprus Greece but have indirectly united with 24 other states including Greece but can not wipe out the TCs just try and turn them into just any minority. Turkey does not want to and never has wanted to call itself Greece it wants to join a christian club more fool them.

Viewpoint, we heard your lame excuses 100 times. Turks have killed 10s of thousands of GReek Cypriots, and on the other hand TCs had just some 100s of victims and you talk about "TC annihilation", how more ridiculous can you be?

Cyprus is part of EU, not part of Greece. If being part of EU means that we are part of Greece then I ask you again why Turkey wants to be part of Greece as well?

Come on Piratis I have always said I prefer partition and thats why I am on this forum to see if there is anything that can make me see why I am wrong, you and Kifeas are doing a great job in confirming that I am right.

Yes you are right that the option of disguised partition that would give you all the benefits of partition + money + EU is not available. So just stick to your usual partition dreams as you have always done.

You are a Greek Cypriot and like it or not you are classed as a foreigner in the TRNC

You have no authority to class me. All you have is a barbaric occupation force that is ready to shoot and kill anybody that tries to takes back his own land.

What you are offering is not on the table, if it was then a group of TCs that have claimed back rights under the 1960 constitution should have been welcomed with open arms and told what conditions they have to meet for TCs to get back their rights, looks like what you preach and what your administration do are 2 different things.

What we say is that ALL Cypriots should take their rights according to the 1960 agreements. What you want is that just you take your rights while at the same time refuse to allow GCs to take theirs. Thats not going to happen.

Each country around the globe applies Democracy and human rights differently and many are far from perfect

I think you missed this part:

These elements define the fundamental elements of all modern democracies, no matter how varied in history, culture, and economy. Despite their enormous differences as nations and societies, the essential elements of constitutional government--majority rule coupled with individual and minority rights, and the rule of law--can be found in Canada and Costa Rica, France and Botswana, Japan and India.

Therefore democracy and human rights are some very specific things. You can't take the label "democracy" and put whatever you feel like in it.

[Kikapu]

Just before I leave home to fly to London for the weekend, can I ask the question, particularly to Piratis and Kifeas, and maybe even Soto. Are you all a "hired gun" by the ROC to represent the governments views on this forum, because it seems you're all to be reading from the same script of "talking points". If not, my apologies in advance.

Kikapu, I am sorry you dropped to such a pathetic level. You should ask such questions to those that what they say represents almost no Greek Cypriots. Do you know that the party that fully supported the Annan plan received only 1.5% in the elections and didn't even get 1 seat in the parliament? Therefore you should wonder were all these GCs Annan supporters come from, since if they were indeed as many as indicated by this forum then EDI should have received 20%+ and not 1.5%.

The fact is, that if in this forum we had a representative sample of the GC population you would see a lot more Piratis, Kifeas etc, and a lot less despos, Bananiots, webmagus etc.

Piratis,

I was just asking the question. There's nothing illegal if you're sharing the governments or the majorities point of view, is just that you and Kifeas seems to be the most out spoken in favour of PappaD. Often you accuse others of much worse, eg Nazism, butchers, whores, traitors, back-stabbers barbarians, to name a few, so I don't think I need to worry about reaching any lows, just for asking a question. It does seem odd though, that even though you have voted for PappaD, you claimed in the past as not to have supported his party, so does that mean that you support the Annan Plan, since his party is against it..??!!!

In a nut shell, all those (now) that do not support the Annan Plan, have been convinced that the GC's will get all they want sooner or later by pressuring Turkey through the EU. Unfortunately, the GC's have been put between a rock and a hard place with this dream. If they support the AP now, would mean not getting what they want later, hence the fact why the party you have mentioned, EDI only received 1.5% support. I will be the first to agree with you and others that the Annan Plan did not give the GC's all they wanted, but they now have, much less than they would have gotten.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Viewpoint, we heard your lame excuses 100 times. Turks have killed 10s of thousands of GReek Cypriots, and on the other hand TCs had just some 100s of victims and you talk about "TC annihilation", how more ridiculous can you be?

I will not stoop to your level although kindly remember I can. You are avoiding the real issue that I raised that you have what you want and that is a Greek Cypriot state run by Greek Cypriots.

You continously measure everything in volumes of deaths, you did 100 times more bad things to us so you must be wrong well is doesnt go that way. You can ignite a bomb that will explode in your face and kill others, is the bomb the problem or the person that lit the fuse?

Your intention to annihiate us was always your aim read the words of Makarios and Samson, Grivas the fact thank god you couldnt execute it doesnt excuse it.

Cyprus is part of EU, not part of Greece. If being part of EU means that we are part of Greece then I ask you again why Turkey wants to be part of Greece as well?

Previously you wanted to change Cyprus into Greece against our will and was therefore unacceptable to us and now you have joined Greece plus 23 other states in a union/enosis which is acceptable to us and Turkey because of the conditions under which you have united thats the difference. (Although Cyprus should never have been accepted until a solution was found but thats another matter all together).

Yes you are right that the option of disguised partition that would give you all the benefits of partition + money + EU is not available. So just stick to your usual partition dreams as you have always done.

You have to persuade me otherwise and you are not doing a very good job, you do more damage that good only thing is you do not realize it.

You have no authority to class me. All you have is a barbaric occupation force that is ready to shoot and kill anybody that tries to takes back his own land.

So? Like it or not in the TRNC I have every right and wil continue to do so as long as we cannot agree a comprehensive solution.

What we say is that ALL Cypriots should take their rights according to the 1960 agreements. What you want is that just you take your rights while at the same time refuse to allow GCs to take theirs. Thats not going to happen.

What we say is we want out rights back what do we have to do to get them and what guarantees do we have that you will not attempt to water down the rights of th TC community in the 1960 agreements?

Lets see if you will give them back, I doubt it very much dont you?

These elements define the fundamental elements of all modern democracies, no matter how varied in history, culture, and economy. Despite their enormous differences as nations and societies, the essential elements of constitutional government--majority rule coupled with individual and minority rights, and the rule of law--can be found in Canada and Costa Rica, France and Botswana, Japan and India.

Therefore democracy and human rights are some very specific things. You can't take the label "democracy" and put whatever you feel like in it.

The democracy and human rights administered in Botswana and in Denmark are totally different. In theory you are saying they should all be the same, well Piratis come down to earth and see that it is not. The reciepe for stramberry jam maybe the same but the quality of each jam will differ from cook to cook.

Under a BBF system we will be equal partners,2 component states the balance of this partnership will have to be agreed in a comprehensive solution.

[Tony-4497]

It is unlikely that we will trust each other enough for a power sharing solution any time in the foreseeable future, under the current terms. TCs are not prepared to accept that they are a minority and demand to have near-50% rights and sovereignty in any solution.. GCs will never accept that, as it is fundamentally unfair.

Accordingly, an interim solution needs to be found - this can only be a confederation of 2 separate, sovereign states, on the basis of proportionality in size..i.e. 82%:18%

In other words, in the interim, TCs receive recognition, sovereignty and automatic EU entry, and Turkey removes the Cyprus obstacle from the EU process, in return for 18% of the land.. This solution will also probably allow all people from both sides who would want to re-claim their original homes to do so.. as there will be very strong majorities and sovereignty in each state, hence no threat of ethnic dilution etc.

After a few years, when hopefully trust is re-gained, the two states could consider integration into a federation or an alternative solution

[Simon]

Cypezokyli are you having a laugh? Do you listen to the views of any TCs or do you choose to just become deaf when they say something that does not fit into your little world. The only reason they reject a two-state solution is because a BBF suits them more. It is practically partition anyway, plus it means they will no longer be isolated and be able to join the EU. Oh and not forgetting they will have a veto on almost anything, relating to the whole of Cyprus, I'd say that's a great deal for a community that makes up just 18% of the population. Wouldn't you?

I never said that TCs wanted a two-state solution, what I said was that they did not want true reunification. The poll itself shows that we do want true reunification, i.e. 63% of GCs want a one-state solution, while 52% (by far the highest) of TCs want a Federal solution. This proves my point. I understand that our leaders have agreed a solution on the basis of a BBF, but personally, I do not see this as truly reunifying. If we are going to have a solution based on Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot zones, then isn't this in reality just two states coming together, which legalises Turkey creating a state in the north. What is the point in this? We might as well just formally separate, if this is the only way forward.

One for you Militiades, according to the analysis 'Building Trust' which Cypezokyli sent me, 53% of Tukish Cypriots stated that we should strive to be Cypriot first and Turkish second in May 2005. This year, that is down to 40%. Doesn't seem like your method is catching on there does it? When asked if they had much in common with GCs, again it dropped by the same amount. Further, in May 2005, 60% of TCs said religion was important in their lives, this year, that has shot up to 78%. This should worry you Militiades considering you have stated before that religion is basically not a good thing. 55% of TCs said that they wouldn't mind having a GC as a neighbour in 2005, now down to 40%. Does this sound like people that want true reunification to you? It is also interesting to see that 78% of Greek Cypriots believe that their side has some blame for the current problem, while only 45% (which again has dropped) of TCs believe they share some blame. Again, this is an interesting one for you Cypezokyli. Further, on the 35-54 age scale, only 45% of TCs said that they wouldn't mind having a GC as a neighbour, this is a bit low, don't you think? For over 55s, it was only 37%. I could go on, but I think I've said enough.

[Piratis]

I was just asking the question. There's nothing illegal if you're sharing the governments or the majorities point of view, is just that you and Kifeas seems to be the most out spoken in favour of PappaD.

You said that we were hired by the government because we support what we do. Papadopoulos has the support of over 60%+ of the people especially when it comes to the Cyprus problem. Is the 60%+ hired by the government????

Often you accuse others of much worse, eg Nazism, butchers, whores, traitors, back-stabbers barbarians, to name a few, so I don't think I need to worry about reaching any lows, just for asking a question.

Take the cases one by one and you will see that that that I call Nazis are those that support human rights violations and racist discriminations. Those that I call "butchers" are those that support the mass killing of innocent people etc. I didn't make any unfounded illogical claims that have nothing to do with the truth like you do.

It does seem odd though, that even though you have voted for PappaD, you claimed in the past as not to have supported his party, so does that mean that you support the Annan Plan, since his party is against it..??!!!

Most parties are against Annan plan and many parties participate in Papadopoulos government. So you just made another baseless argument.
If I was voting only based on the policies for the Cyprus problem then I would not exclude DIKO (Papadopoulos party) from receiving my vote. His party is excluded for other reasons.

I will be the first to agree with you and others that the Annan Plan did not give the GC's all they wanted, but they now have, much less than they would have gotten.

On the contrary, with Annan plan not only we would have lost even more, but our loss would have been permanent since we would have accepted it with our signature.
The Annan plan was such a pro-Turkish plan that rejecting it was the easiest decision ever for most of us.

[andri_cy]

and almost every TC I hear does not truly want reunification anyway.

http://www.CyprusPolls.org/BuildingTrust.pdf

the above is a poll from a prominent psychlogist. a member of this forum as well. tcs reject a two-state solution

and as for the basis for a solution i refer you to what our elected leaders agreed on yesterday

Set of Principles"



1. Commitment to the unification of Cyprus based on a bi-zonal,

bi-communal federation and political equality, as set out in the

relevant Security Council resolutions.



2. Recognition of the fact that the status quo is unacceptable and

that its prolongation would have negative consequences for the

Turkish and Greek Cypriots.

Well I dont know if the results of this are even supported by acceptable material, but the TCs seem to be the one that dont want GC neighbors. What about that